***** Guitar Project Jigs, Tools & Techniques Online Resources Archives OLF Video Page Library of plans MP3 Library Inlay Class
Offical Luthiers Forum





And our community proudly sponsored by:

RC Tonewoods | Stewart MacDonald | LuthiersForum
TasmanianTonewoods | OLF | OLF MERCH
Luthier Suppliers | Pacific Coast Woods | ELEVATE
OLF X | Tasmanian Acoustic Tonewood | Luthiers Forum Store!
Luthiers Forum | OLF Facebook | AVAIL SPACE
OLF | Alaska Specialty Woods | A.Hix Tonewood
Duke of Pearl | Birkonium CNC | Space




Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:55 pm


Board index » Forum Archive

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 15 posts ] 
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
sbrunker
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:11 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:37 am
Posts: 46
Location: United States



A coworker buddy of mine shared these pic's with me.  He lives in Austin, TX.  This 20 yr old hand made guitar needs a neck reset and he wants to put a truss rod in as well.  The rest of the story is...early in the guitar's life, his dog knocked the guitar off the stand and it landed in such a way that the neck broke off.  Since he took pictures of that fracture, we get an x-ray of sorts into the dove tail (and possibly a lesson in how not to install a strap button???).  Looks like it would be a challenge to pop it out cleanly, given the previous fracture and the lack of a gap between dovetail/neck block.  Any takers in the Austin area?  I could give my friend your info.







_________________
Stuart Brunker
Top
 Profile  
 
Michael Dale Payne
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:47 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
I would almost be tempted to take off the peghead veneer and fretboard if possible and build a new butt joint bolted neck for it.
Top
 Profile  
 
sbrunker
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:05 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:37 am
Posts: 46
Location: United States



Hi Michael,


Neat idea.  I never would have thought of that.  How would you get the veneer off?  Heat?  Bandsaw?


_________________
Stuart Brunker
Top
 Profile  
 
FishtownMike
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:57 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:37 am
Posts: 590
Location: United States
First name: Michael
Last Name: Shaw
City: Phila
State: PA
Zip/Postal Code: 19125
Country: United States
You could probably easily steam out the piece still in the dovetail and rejoin it to the neck with with the use of dows and glue. It seems like the strap button might have been the culprit. Maybe the maker didnt drill a proper whole wide or deep enough. Putting some stress in that area. I'm sure a good repairman in your area could do a nice job with that.

_________________
Guitars, guitars and more guitars.
Top
 Profile  
 
Michael Dale Payne
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:20 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
I would look at separating it from the neck with heat and a seam knife if possible, if not the band saw it off the thickness sand it down to just the veneer.

The neck is repairable The issue I am afraid of is the adding an adjustable truss rod.

If I am looking at the picture correctly the steel bar that is in there is not adjustable and is only reinforcement. Correct?

If this is the case it would likely be easier to fabricate a butt joint bolt on neck with rod access at the peghead than to try to modify that neck for an adjustable truss rod. If it were not for that I would say the repair the neck.
Top
 Profile  
 
sbrunker
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:30 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:37 am
Posts: 46
Location: United States



Thanks for the response.  The neck is currently glued back and reattached.  It's just that the whole thing needs to come back off now because the action has become too high in recent years.  Agree that there's a good repair guy in the Austin area who can get all this apart/back together.  I guess I was also curious to see what the fine members of this forum thought, so your reply is greatly appreciated.


_________________
Stuart Brunker
Top
 Profile  
 
sbrunker
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:36 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:37 am
Posts: 46
Location: United States

[QUOTE=MichaelP]If I am looking at the picture correctly the steel bar that is in there is not adjustable and is only reinforcement. Correct?
QUOTE]


Yep, that's right.  There isn't a truss rod.  I'm not sure what that is protruding from the neck onto the fretboard extension, but you're probably correct there as well.


_________________
Stuart Brunker
Top
 Profile  
 
Michael Dale Payne
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:07 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
Not counting changing to an adjustable truss rod. This would have bee an easy repair if the neck had not been glued bac togather.

If the Dovetail was steamed out before the glue up then it would have been a typicl neck set repair plus abreak repair.

Glueing back up was not the best idea.
Top
 Profile  
 
sbrunker
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:55 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:37 am
Posts: 46
Location: United States



I got the impression from my buddy that the neck fracture happened some years ago, was repaired at that time, so maybe (hopefully) the builder didn't miss a golden opportunity to set things straight at that time because they were already straight.  The combination of the prior fracture and the lack of a gap behind the dovetail made me think initially that it would be a difficult removal, but it sounds like it might not be so bad, and maybe my buddy can live without a truss rod.


_________________
Stuart Brunker
Top
 Profile  
 
TonyKarol
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:10 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:51 am
Posts: 3786
Location: Canada
Having done t before, and providing the same adice to AZ, the best way IMO to ge the headstock face off is to cut the headstock off, then resaw the rear off the headstock remaining, then thickness sand whats left till you get jsut the faceplate and binding. You might want to leave it a hiar thick as I woudlnt count on the binding and shell remaining intact if it gets thin. Same thing if you want to save the FB - cut the back of the neck off, close to the truss rod, then plane/chisel/sand until you can pull the truss rod out, then remove whatever wood is remaining on the back of the FB. I would then make a new neck, bolt on heel, fill the dovetail cavity flush, drill bolt holes and then coutersink with a bit like Frank Ford has (I made a similar one from a spade bit - just grind the flange area sharp and it will cut in reverse on the pull). Its a lot of work but not impossible - count on it being at least 1K - I wouldnt do it for any less ...

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"
Top
 Profile  
 
John Lewis
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:17 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 729
Location: United States
First name: John
Last Name: Lewis
City: Newnan
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30265
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hi Stuart-

Try to track down Tony Noble in/around the Austin area. He used to work as a repairman at Erlewine guitars in Austin before venturing out on his own as a custom builder and repairman. I think he also used to write an article for Vintage Guitar magazine. He did work for me on a few guitars a good while back and it was first rate work.

Good luck-

_________________
John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds
Top
 Profile  
 
John Lewis
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:28 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 729
Location: United States
First name: John
Last Name: Lewis
City: Newnan
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30265
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Oops-

That's Tony Nobles and I just checked out the Vintage Guitar magazine website - he is at Precision Guitarworks where he builds custom guitars and does repairs and guitar refins.

Precision Guitarworks, Ltd.
14 Brookside Drive, Wimberley, TX 78676-2602
(512) 847-3700

I hope this info is current.

_________________
John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds
Top
 Profile  
 
sbrunker
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:12 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:37 am
Posts: 46
Location: United States



Thanks, John.  I'll pass that info along.


And thank you, Tony, for the thoughts.  I really enjoy using things like this as a learning opportunity.


_________________
Stuart Brunker
Top
 Profile  
 
Rick Turner
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:10 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:13 am
Posts: 1398
Location: United States
Do I detect a pushing in of the neck and neck block into the top? Or was the guitar made with the sided going in slightly concave at the neck attachment. And was that really a huge amount of wood filler there between the body and the face of the side of the heel?   Holy crap!

That sucker needs a new neck at the very least.   Save the peghead and fingerboard if you love them and have a decently fitted neck put on whether it be dovetailed (I wouldn't) or bolted (I would).   

This is a perfect example of designing a guitar from the outside in and paying more attention to bling than performance.
Top
 Profile  
 
sbrunker
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:35 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:37 am
Posts: 46
Location: United States



Hi Rick,


Keen observation.  Thanks for taking a look.  I had hoped to get your two cents on this guitar.  These pictures are as close as I've ever been to the guitar, so I don't know if it's wood filler, but it certainly could be.


_________________
Stuart Brunker
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 15 posts ] 

Board index » Forum Archive

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 45 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com