Official Luthiers Forum!

I recently took in a repair that I thought would be an easy fix. All he wanted was to have the action lowered and clean up the fretboard. Little did I know that I would run into a big worm.....!!
This ooo-14 will not tune up correctly. not even close.
I measured the scale and it measures up to a 25 11/32 perfectly. The IBEX ruler indicated eeverything is up tp to snuff.
I just cant figure it out. Can you guys please put your heads together and help me out.

Thanks
walter

I'm not gonna be any help at all, but this is sure sounding familiar to me.  I'm having deja vu!  

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Walter,
What is the distance from the nut to the 12th fret and from the 12th fret to the saddle.
Please give the dimensions for both E strings and in the center. (total of 6 measurements)
Measure to the middle of the saddle.

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Walter-
Perhaps you could explain a bit more what you mean by:"won't tune up correctly"?
Do you mean that the intonation is off (12th fret note and harmonics far apart), or something else?

Do you have new strings on it?

Was it playing 'in tune' before you lowered the action (saddle?)
Saddle was replaced the 'right way round' after adjustment?

Sounds puzzling, for sure...

Cheers

John

Walter - if its just an intonation issue then compensate the saddle. Make sure the nut isn't too high and that the strings are exiting the nut at the very edge.

There's a local classical guitar dealer who brings me quite a few guitars to have the intonation tweaked. Sometimes I have to shorten the distance between the nut and the first fret. Anyways, once e brought me a hand made guitar that just sounded terribly flat. Everything measured out correctly and I spent some time trying to decide what to do about it - it made no sense. In the end I decided I'd at least see what happens with a fresh pack of strings on her and sure enough it corrected the issue perfectly. The strings were already new, but sometimes even then the string can be the culprit.

_________________
Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Walter,
   If it's a Martin, there's a 3/32" wide saddle on it and compensation of
that narrow sadde wil provide minimal result and solution to your
intonation problem.

   Did it tune up before lowering the action? If so, one of the intonation
determining points was altered to make the change occur.

   With the narrower saddle, it would most likely be the nut that is cousing
the trouble. Make sure that the nut slots are cut so that the strings break
contact with the nut at the very front edge toward to fingerboard.

    If the slots are ot angled properly and allow contact to terminate in the
middle of the nut, severe intonation problems will be evident
immediately. I always cut my nut slots on an angle greater than that of
the headstock so the there is only about 1/16" of total contat between
the strings and nut.

   I'd check that first, and then think about fine tuning the intonation
using saddle compensation.


   If the tuning trouble was present when the guitar came to you and the
nut and saddle are providing proper contact points for string lengths that
will present intonation fo the note and harmonic blankets, the problem
would more likely lie in a misplaced bridge or improperly located saddle
slot.


Just some thoughts,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Hi Walter,

If the frets and saddle are where they should be then it could be that the frets aren't level and with you having lowered the action the strings may now be fretting out on the high frets and not the ones that are fingered. Tune the guitar up to EADGBE on the open strings and then for each string fret and play each note and check it against the tuner ie :

1st string: 1st fret, 2nd fret, 3rd fret etc. and so on for each string. Write down each note that the tuner shows compared to what it should be based on the fret you are fretting.

If the string is fretting out it will register the higher note of the fret it is fretting out on rather than the one you are fretting and will usually stay on that note for every fret until you reach the fret where it is fretting out.

If the high frets are above the 12th fret you will not get the 12th fret to register the octave of the open string and when you frey chords you will get weird things.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!!

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

I had a tuning problem on a repair I took in years ago, that I traced to the nut. I stumbled onto it after I'd tuned it, but it played way out of tune everywhere on the neck. I then put a capo on the first fret. Everything went screwy. So I tuned it again with the capo on, which put it a half-step high, and it played fine. Took the capo off, it was way off again. The nut slots were angled wrong, like what Kevin mentioned in his post, stopping the strings in the nut rather than at its edge. If this is the problem of course it would have been present from the start, but was it Ok before the change in saddle ht?

_________________
now known around here as Pat Foster
_________________
http://www.patfosterguitars.com

If saddle and fret positions are right I to would look at the nut. strings could be binding in too tight of slots or the break edge may be warn over there by altering the actual scale length generated by the break points. And this could be an issue on several or all strings being out of intonation aat the nut

Did you change string gauges? They might not sit in your nut slots because of that.

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......