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Hi guys. Has anyone noticed how the newer bottles of Stew Mac thinnest superglue isn't as fast as the older ones? It seems to not wick under as much and it bubbles worse.
Am I the only one experiencing this? It also seems to be shrinking worse with time. If it's just me let me know. I am looking for another brand. Any recommendations? Paul?

Thanks.
Craig L

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www.handcraftinlay.com

Hi Craig,

I don't use the stew Mac brand; I make my own black thin set by combining black powdered analine dye with thin CA. It takes a week or so to finally mix well, but seems to work fine.

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Paul Bordeaux
http://www.bordeauxinlay.com

Craig, I've had real good luck with Loctite brand. It wicks into even the tightest joints, and it has a patented "No-Clog" cap. I don't use CA as fill around inlay, but I have been experimenting with the black stuff a little lately... I still like epoxy better for fill.

The Loctite is available everywhere so it would be easy to give it a try,

long

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"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus

Hi Craig,
Not that I have doin'much inlayin' lately, but one of the best sources I (and others) have found is CPH International (800) 900 4583.
They only sell cyanoacrylate.
Aside from having great quality and selection their prices are about half of everyone else-no middle man.

By the way-your work continues to make me smile!!!
Good luck,
Brad

[QUOTE=clavin] Hi guys. Has anyone noticed how the newer bottles of Stew Mac thinnest superglue isn't as fast as the older ones? It seems to not wick under as much and it bubbles worse.
Am I the only one experiencing this? It also seems to be shrinking worse with time. If it's just me let me know. I am looking for another brand. Any recommendations? Paul?

Thanks.
Craig L[/QUOTE]

Two words for you...

"Star bond"

or is that one word? Well either way... give that a try. I think it is the best stuff out there.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

CPH international is the distributor for Starbond-their website is www.starbond.com.

Just another road on the path to ever hopeful "close as to perfect as good as you can get it-ness".
I'll let you know how they work out.
Craig

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www.handcraftinlay.com

Craig, I noticed that my last bottle wasn't as thin, but I figured it was just
because it was getting old. Maybe not though??? I just got a new one
from SM but haven't opened it yet. I'll let you know.

Any idea who makes Stewmac's CA?

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

I use Bob Smith.

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John Watkins
CNC Guitar Parts

Mine's rebranded, but I get it in big bottles really cheaply. It's the Bob Smith stuff, as well.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Chalk me up as another Bob Smith user...

Dave

I'm with you Chris on using epoxy for inlays. I've only just started learning of the wonderous world of inlaying.  I just did my first inlays on a fretboard last week, which went well considering the color of the wood and the shape of the inlays.  Here is a quick pic just after cleaning up the dried epoxy and wetted with some naptha. 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/jmrentis/Guitar%20Bui lding%20Pics/IM000928.jpg

I did a bunch of tests and practice runs the week prior with both CA and epoxy.  A buddy convinced me to go epoxy and I was very glad I did for numerous reasons.  One of the main reasons was this: http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/jmrentis/Guitar%20Bui lding%20Pics/IM000948.jpg

I had glued the block inlay together flat and inlayed it into the radiused route, which is how my problem occurred. Next time I'll know better, it was a dumb mistake, especially considering how thin those pieces were to begin with. You can see how much space was left behind the inlay.  So the inlay wore thin and became see through and I was upset and started thinking about how I could route out the shell.  Then it struck me about a myth I heard dispelled recently and that epoxy would let go with heat, contrary to what I read a few times in the past.  So, I grabbed the only thing I had, a hairdryer and figured I'd try that and if not go buy a heatgun.  Within 5 minutes with the hairdryer and razorblade BINGO- http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/jmrentis/Guitar%20Bui lding%20Pics/IM000961.jpg 

With the new shell coming from Andy I will glue the pieces together with a matching radius and inlay a whole new block inlay. Would CA have been as forgiving here? Jason

replace it. Inlaying flat things on to a radius curve is normal. Using pieces too thin is beginner mistake. if that shell was .05-.06 and inset properly that would have not happened. By the way those inlays looks great, and you did a good job on them.
I have problems with CA mainly as a health reason- the fumes are really worse than epoxy. It also shrinks a bit which I don't like. I have problems with a specific type that I feel has undergone changes for the worse. There are times in inlay where CA is all that the technique is good for and epoxy is just too thick. There are also many super-glue removers that you can let sit for a while that soften it out and it cleans up very nicely, without impacting the wood. Larry R uses nothing but CA for the most part but I learned from him last night that he is using Star Bond so I am going to change to that. The whole million Martin in most places was done with most likely Star Bond glue so don't bash CA. I wasn't bashing it, just trying to see if my particular brand needed help. I like the way epoxy looks as a filler much more than CA, but for touch up epoxy just doesn't work for me. Once the initial cure time is up and I level my inlays my epoxy just won't bond to the previous dried epoxy. CA always re-bonds, and bonds to epoxy as well. There are many many benefit to it. I just need to change brands. There will come a time in one's inlay work wen you start to work really thin and quite possibly shallow, and epoxy won't handle the job like CA. Right now even in one inlay job I use both.
Craig L

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www.handcraftinlay.com

I don't buy any pre blackened CA. If I need some I use the old lamp black technique. Burn a un-sented candle with aluminum foil close to the flame. The suet build up or lamp black is scraped off the foil and the dissolved into a drop or two of acetone and then mixed with med thin CA and use immediately. I do this because I rarely need it and twice I have bought SM's and had it go so thick in weeks it was more trouble to use than effort to use it.

When I'm doing a lot of inlay work, or other stuff with CA, I always have a fan providing a cross-breeze to knock away the fumes. A surprisingly small amount of cross-wind will make them 'disappear' entirely.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Guys,(and Ladies),

If you're buying re branded accelerators, be sure you know what they're based on.
An acetone based one will wreak havoc on many finishes!

For inlaying with CA,I usually use a mix of tight routes, ebony scrapings,(made by scraping a similar surface with a single edge blade), and black tinted CA. If you can wait overnight, most of the shrinkage seems to be over.

Bob (Long), how did your experiments go?

Paul

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Paul Bordeaux
http://www.bordeauxinlay.com

Craig, thanks for the great info. Yes the shell was thin, especially on that side.  I wasn't able to buy a single block inlay by itself, so Andy sent me a couple offcuts and they weren't quite standard thickness, but it was my mistake for not taking this into account.  I talked to him and bought some blanks so I can redo the inlay.

 I am glad to hear that CA is reversible as the epoxy was.  I was very curious to hear if it was or not, I asked because I figured you or someone would know.  I was always planning on using CA as all the great inlayers that I idolize use CA including yourself, so honestly there was no choice other than CA in my mind.  But after doing a bunch of tests I just felt epoxy afforded me some more room for error with less negatives for my skill level and type of inlays.  I know however if I was doing more extreme inlays or using other materials I would probably need to use CA.   

Definitely keep us posted on how starbond works for you.  I actually ended up using CA to keep the block inlay together, so I didn't end up with colored epoxy between the pieces. I might grab myself some of that starbond to run some more tests.  I really do like how the west systems 206 epoxy worked for me, quite thin compared to many epoxies I've used in the past.

NOTE: When talking to Andy(Depaule) yesterday when ordering some more shell, he gave me some good advice for situations when you are worried about thin shell.  He said you could use either some white paper or aluminum underneath the inlay to prevent the look when the shell gets thin. He says sometimes it can even look grey when just barely thinned and using something white and/or bright like some paper or aluminum will help avoid this. I thought that was a cool idea, if you know you are working with thin pieces or with large flat pieces on a radiused board. I'd imagine I would have had no problems if I had done something like this.  Jason

If your thicknesses are correct. You may need to if you are using semi-transparent materials or going for a certain effect. I know Larry R sometimes uses foils to back clearer plastics on even the most complex and expensive of his inlays (ie: the dragon in his China guitar) I prefer the epoxy, it doesn't give one flue symptoms. It just doesn't have the wick ability one needs at times. If your worried about sanding through put a piece of wax paper over your fingerboard, and piece together any inlays prior to scribing the route by gluing them up to the radius. They will look funny and bent a bit when you pull them off, but they will follow the curve better and are less likely to sand through. Also remember to clamp and put a little pressure on them. Epoxy especially tends to make inlays rise due to it's thickness.
CA tends to pull the inlay down into the cavity.
What ever you do keep an open mind!
I will let you know how Star bond works but given who uses it I already know it's great. I think luthiery is still the one place where endorsements by one's "heroes" can be taken seriously. Keep up your good work! I should be posting pics of something neat soon.
Craig L

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www.handcraftinlay.com

I found it very interesting that placing something underneath could be done.  I wouldn't really have any need to do so, but if I had on this last one, I bet I would have been fine.  Using different materials and more complex inlays won't be something I try anytime soon, so I doubt I will find any use in that technique, but regardless I found the idea very cool and smart, I always like smart luthiery.  

Anyhow, I truly wished that I had glued the piece up at a radius, I knew I should have, but I thought I might get away without it, as I said it was a dumb beginners mistake.  I will say that I am pretty happy though that was the extent of my mistake on my first ever inlay attempt.  Thanks for the wax paper idea and thoughts on clamping the inlay. I know what you mean about epoxy pushing the inlay out, and clamping is a good idea especially for that particular inlay. 

I do think you are right, that you can look to your luthier heroes for ideas on products.  Basically what I do is, try the products that my idols use and if there are multiple brands mentioned I'll test them against each other to see which one is better suited to me. This way I know I am at least using something that is known to work, but also suited to my skills and taste.

Thank goodness for Saturday mail, as I just got the shell from Andy!! Now I can get crackin on the fix up job this weekend.  I believe Monday is a holiday so if it hadn't come today it would have been tuesday.

One last thing Craig, have you even done a tidal scene before? I've pretty much seen most of your work I believe as marine life is one of my favorite things.  I'm basically a fisherman that loves marine biology, so your marine work just blows my mind.  Anyhow, I don't know that I've seen you do any tidal inlays and I thought that might be a new area to work into your work.  I bet you could do some wicked crabs or seals or whatever.  Or even do an underwater scene on the fretboard and do a tidal scene headstock, that might have a cool effect.  Sorry, your work just gets my mind going with ideas, cool stuff man.  Keep the pics coming and best of luck. Jason

I have not done a tidal scene yet, but I have an idea for tying in a lighthouse with a purple and gold sunset and a beach scene with intertidal and tidal creatures, kelp and shells.
I have more than a few commissions that are sea life related coming up so keep watch, and hopefully soon my new website will launch with some newer work you may not have seen yet. I am heading out to NAMM this year and I believe the marine theme will work against me out there, so I am trying to come up with other ideas. On the other hand it IS what I do so maybe I should just be myself.. It's a tough call. Good luck.

Craig L

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www.handcraftinlay.com

If you want to get out of the marine concept for NAMM, what I would say is try the closest thing you can get to the marine environment thats on land, the Rainforest.  It's essentially the same thing, just different creatures, like some of the frogs or parrots you've done and so on.   Maybe you could do an African desert safari style one also, but I know you could absolutely kill a rainforest scene, the concept is the same as underwater inlays, I think.  Just a thought.

Anyway, I can't wait to see your new site, definitely keep us posted on that. The lighthouse tidal scene idea sounds awesome, I know that will be amazing for sure. Best of luck and keep us posted.       Jason

[QUOTE=1bordeaux]
Bob (Long), how did your experiments go?

Paul
[/QUOTE]

Paul, sorry my reply took so long...

The Starbond black CA worked really well on the test I did. It did shrink back and needed a second application, but it was free from bubbles and almost invisible against ebony. I think it works as good as tinted epoxy, with the added benefit of convenience. I think I'll start using it on all my ebony inlays... until something bad happens.

long

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"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus