Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello folks...

I'm a guitar-lover from London, and I'm stuck on which direction to take as a way in to luthiery. I have no previous experience, not much money, and no idea how to start.

Does anyone know of any recommended courses/workshops/luthiers in the UK?

Thanks for any shoves in the right direction you can give me...

Rich Q

Rich, first, welcome to the OLF. The amount of knowledge here is incredible.
Here's my advice: keep in mind that you get what you paid for.
1) pick up a copy of GuitarMaking Tradition and Technology by Cumpiano/Natelson. Read it cover to cover, several times. That will give you the backbone to build a first guitar.
2) purchase a kit from Blues Creek, Stew Mac, or LMI and build that. It's pretty much the same as a full build but some of the costly set-up steps are done for you.
Now, at this point, if you still love it and want to build more (which I reckon you will)start working on designs and plans of your own builds.
I don't know of formal schooling in Europe. But even if you find a school and want to attend, I'd still recomend having read that book and at least one build under your belt.
Lastly, hang out here. There's lots of information and it doesn't cost a dime.
Good luck! Paul

Welcome Rich.

Sound advice from Paul as always. But, if you decide to build from Cumpiano's book, check his website for clarifications and updates. I believe some errors slipped by the proofreader. Also, he (and many builders on this forum) now use a much easier version of the neck joint. Other than that, spend lots of time on the forum and go through the archives. There's a couple of years worth of information and inspiration there. I'm sure some folks in your neck of the woods will be able to help with info on schools.

Bob K

When you but a kit, be sure that the sides are bent, and a precarved neck sure makes the first one easier.

Al

I need an edit button. I meant to say when you buy a kit.
Sorry,

Al

Welcome to the OLF, Rich.  I'm a first time builder too.  I have wanted to for over 20 years, and finally pulled the trigger this year.  What the others have said is a good idea.  For some reason, I chose full immersion, so I'm building a classical from scratch.  It is slow, but fun.  I sometimes find it hard to work for wanting to be on the forum to see what everyone is talking about.  It is a great place to hang out.  You will enjoy learning from this bunch of sharing and knowledgeable individuals.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Welcome to OLF Rich.  Repair is always a good way to get your feet wet.  There are a lot of junkers out there to practice on.  The photo below is a current listing on ebay.

Hi Rich, Welcome to the OLF.

Very good advice from everyone so far.

I also am a first time builder and I chose the from scratch method. I find the books useful to reference, but I've really gotten the most out of videos (Finocchio & Mayes is what I've used) as well as a lot of useful tips here on the OLF. Building from scratch has been a long and drawn out process for me mostly because I didn't have anything in the line of woodworking tools so I've had to take several breaks in between to save up money. For that reason alone I would reccomend starting off with a kit so that you can get the idea of how everything goes together and have a lot of the steps that require special tools already done for you. (Fret slots, side bending, rosette, etc.)

Again, welcome to the OLF and feel free to ask questions. I don't feel that I'm qualified to answer them yet (unless you ask what day it is, and even then I may not be able to give you a correct answer) , but there are a whole handful of knowledgeable people here that have helped me a lot and I'm sure will do the same for you.

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Im also building my first one, and Ive already gone through a side set, and a top. I may be able to reuse the top. Im going to  re-top my old Alvarez that is just sitting around, for my second guitar. That should make an interesting project. I will record before,and after mp3.s

I have estimated it will run from 20 to 50 $ to retop the guitar.

If you dont have much money, you will save on sidebending, in which you may choose to build 2 molds from.

I would say, do a top and rebrace for your first, or 2nd if you blow it. Its the cheapest. If the first one turns out ok, then try refitting the back with a solid wood back.

 

All total Ive spent about $1700.00 US on wood, tools, drill press, table saw, etc and I had alot of the must have tools also, and Im not done yet. The drill press is almost a must have for making molds etc...Molds can take weeks, depending on your skill and time. Kinkead also has a good book out. Hes also a Brit, and highly regarded luthier.

 

Get a couple cheap sitka tops and braces, and go from there IMO.

 

 

 

 

wELCOME!
I too would suggest the Cumpiano book to start, and like Paul said, read it a few times before starting.

Good luck,

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Rich,

Welcome to the OLF. If you can get a train out to High Wycombe, come over and we can have a chat about building and your options.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Rich welcome to the OLF, there are a number of British members here and we would be more than happy to give you all the help you need. There are some very good suppliers of the wood and bits you need both here in the UK and in Europe.

The suggestion of starting with a kit is a good one, however it may be worth checking if the US suppliers are allowed to send them out of America now, due to the CITIES restrictions on the export of Honduran mahogany, which the pre-made neck will be made from. Anyone know this? If not then Craft Supplies in Derbyshire sell their own kits, but I have no experience of them.

Madinter in Spain also sell kits with a lot of the work done that are very cheap and may give a simple way in to luthiery.

Get the Kinkead book, comes with a plan, and see what you think. It looks daunting at first, but if you break the process down into all of its separate parts it's easily do-able. This is assuming it's a steel string guitar you're after? If it's classical then the Bogdanovich book is the one to buy.

Jammy, (a UK member) is doing a course so he may be able to give you a lead on the availabilty of those.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

What the others have said. I personally still like Cumpiano's book as a fairly thorough introduction to building two guitars, although I do most things quite differently (dishes, molds, bending forms, butt-jointed bolt on necks, that sort of thing), it helped me build a mental model of how a guitar goes together, which in turn allowed me to make use of the excellent information available online, both here and at the MIMF.com (register, and use their library, particularly the catalog, tons of useful discussions and alternative ways to do things there).

I came from an electric building background (only area of commonality: necks and fretwork, and even then only up to a certain point) and decided to go ahead and just get parts and do it all on my own. Can't say I regretted it!

As mentioned, Madinter's a good place to go for not-too-expensive woods of all kinds (ie, great stuff, great prices), although a lot of their back/side woods (rosewoods, anyway) are a little on the 'too green to use' side for my taste, and would do best if stacked, stickered and stored for half a year or more, IMO. You've got several great suppliers in the UK if you want wood, including David Dyke, Touchstone Tonewoods.

Hi Rich, and welcome to the OLF! Another UK-er!!

There are guitar courses abound in London- all you have to do is make up your mind which one!!

The London Metropolitan University might have some guitar building courses; like for example, I think a luthier called Godefroy Maruejouls teaches there- I know of a few over here in the Westcounty, but it depends how far you'd like to travel!!

Merton College in Surrey...

Heck, come to Cheltenham in Gloucester on the 7th and 8th of Sept, where the UK will be hosting it's own "Headlesburg" (a well known guitar maker's conference ) and you'll probably find information about guitar building courses!!!

(I was the very first person to buy tickets...)

Guitar Show

You can build at home, like I do, but it seems to take time to get the shop set up with regards to tools anbd tonewood. 18 months later, and I'm STILL collecting tools and tonewood!!! is it ever going to stop?!

I am still very new at this, as I am building my third guitar, second scratch build, and the more I get into it, the more I love it. The forum has been a lifeline for me, with a rich archive of very well discussed information.

Also I have been using the Cumpiano and Natelson guitarmaking book because the methods seem to suit the basic set-up I have here at home.

My first EVER guitar was a rosewood/spruce dreadnought from Stewmac, and although it's a shoddy attempt for a first build (I was in a hurry), I have concentrated on the setup and fretwork- all in all it's an incredibly playable guitar; I play it daily!

All the very best as to which direction you go in. Attending a guitarmaking course is the very best way (IMHO) to build your first instrument (and second, and third... ), but for me this would require a house move, living in a rural area of the UK.

Because of the nature of where you live, and the many guitarmaking courses in London I have come across in my internet research over the two years, I would recommend you look into that first.

[QUOTE=Mattia Valente]

As mentioned, Madinter's a good place to go for not-too-expensive woods of all kinds (ie, great stuff, great prices), although a lot of their back/side woods (rosewoods, anyway) are a little on the 'too green to use' side for my taste, and would do best if stacked, stickered and stored for half a year or more, IMO. You've got several great suppliers in the UK if you want wood, including David Dyke, Touchstone Tonewoods.[/QUOTE]

An interesting observation- I thought the same thing when I recieved my order of mahogany and ovangkol. Don't get me wrong- the wood is of a wonderful quality and the hog necks are very stable- but I have put the ovangkol and the mahog back & sides at the bottom of my sticker pile with the intention of using the stuff sometime next year.

Colin, as far as I know, Uk & European guitar builders cannot buy Honduras mahogany from the US. Stewmac for a while last year stopped shipping their kits abroad due to the use of Honduras Mahog in their kits, but have now changed the type of wood.

Welcome Rich!

Can’t add much here, I’m also a beginner. I’m about to start my second guitar, and still loving it!

When it comes to help and advise, you’ll not find a better place than the OLF. No matter what
you want to know, there is someone here, that has been through it, and is willing to help out!
That’s what makes this place so great! So much experience, by so many people, who are willing
to share there knowledge!

Also, like Hesh, and Sam I started with a StewMac kit. I would recommend it to anyone,
mostly because of the instructions. I’d take Hesh’s advise, and download those instructions,
you’ll find they are very easy to follow.

I agree with Sam, If you have the time, and money, a course would be invaluable.
There’s nothing wrong with going solo on your first, a lot us have. However, I would think
taking a class, and working with a real luthier, would be something that you’d never forget!

Which ever path you choose, good luck, and have fun!

Robert

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

[QUOTE=Sam Price] Colin, as far as I know, Uk & European guitar builders cannot buy Honduras mahogany from the US. Stewmac for a while last year stopped shipping their kits abroad due to the use of Honduras Mahog in their kits, but have now changed the type of wood. [/QUOTE]

I know they can't send mahogany timber outside the US. But there does seem, in my mind at least, some confusion.

On the SM website for the mahogany neck blanks they can't ship outside the USA, but on the finished necks section it doesn't say that, nor on the kits though it does still say they are mahogany. So how are the rules being interpreted.

For the separate mahogany backs it states they can't send them outside the US , but on the pre-bent sides it doesn't say that! So they can send the sides if they are pre-bent but not the backs! LMI says it can ship pre-made necks anywhere.


Can they send machined parts, at what point of machining/processing does it become legal? If they join and shape the backs is that then legal?
Perhaps we should have a separate thread and ask the various sponsors SM, LMI, John Watkins John Hall, etc to post us their difinitive interpretations as to what is exportable from the US.


OK I have enough Honduran to stock my own tonewood shop, so I'm not likely to start importing it, just interested for those wanting kits outside the US.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.