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Hi all. I've got a nice ~50yo Gibxon J-50 Deluxe on the bench right now. The tortoise binding is completely shot and crumbling off the guitar. Some careful work with my scalpel and chisels should clean out the binding slot in a few hours. My question is, who are your preferred sources for replacement tortoise binding? This is pretty thick stuff - ~0.1"x0.3" and currently a nice medium brown with some good texture. Stewmac has 0.09 thick and tall enough to trim down - the glue will probably give me the extra 0.01" in thickness. Axiom (https://www.axinc.net/Autumn_Sunset_Tor ... _p/cas.htm, I have not heard of these folks) has a lighter color that's 0.1" thick and 0.875 wide that I could cut in half. Other thoughts?

There's some other issues - a minor top crack and normal wear and tear. It could also use a neck reset, but I'll leave that decision up to the owner.

Thanks!

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Tony Thatcher
Bozeman, Montana

Rothko and Frost
Shipping is less than SM
https://rothkoandfrost.com/products/dar ... s=e&_v=1.0

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Measure Twice,

Karl Borum

Thanks, Karl. Unfortunately not thick enough.

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Tony Thatcher
Bozeman, Montana

The Stew-Mac stuff is really dark. Too dark to see the mottling. I was not happy with the finished binding job.

The binding was bought about two or three years ago. Maybe the color has improved since then.

I just finished one of these. The tortoise celluloid binding I had in stock was 0.060" thick, so I glued a layer of holly underneath to get the thickness. The white holly really made the tortoise pop, and I stained the edge of the holly after installation to recreate the illusion of thicker binding.
I did overspray the sides once the binding was leveled.

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John

John, thanks for the suggestion on the holly. I figuring I'd need to build up the thickness. On the top there is already a white/black/white purfling, so I'm going to add another band of black/white under the 0.06" stewmac tortoise binding. On the back, I'll just do black since there is no purfling.

I'm going around and around on what glue to use. Duco and similar are out to avoid damaging the existing finish. I've heard that Titebond III is a good choice, though I am leaning towards taping my binding stack in place and flowing in thin CA. I'll of course seal the binding track first with shellac. I'm still going to have to overspray with new finish to get the surfaces more or less level.

What are your thoughts on glue for the job?

-Tony

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Tony Thatcher
Bozeman, Montana

I have used the Axiom binding on a couple of J50s with great success. If you contact them, they will cut the binding to the height you need, or at least they did for me in the past. It’s been a couple of years since I bought it.

Do up a sample glue up of your candidate glues, with the binding you have. I have been very surprised doing these sample glue ups, what does and does not stick to what. I would post my results, but I've learned it's better to do one's own test.

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Measure Twice,

Karl Borum

If you can get Canopy Glue to stick to the binding it is one of the easiest to use because cleanup can be done with a water dampened rag. There is a discussion on this forum about it here:

https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=54889&hilit=Canopy+glue

I have little faith in Titebond, or any wood glue when attaching plastic bindings. I use super glue most of the time.

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John

After Barry was kind enough to share the results of his experiments with canopy glue a while back, I’ve been using it wherever possible on binding repair. So far it’s batting 1.00 in my shop.

Hey, that's the Guild I used it on two years ago! Glad to report it held up very well despite the less-than-ideal weather conditions it’s being held in.


Pierre
Guitares Torvisse

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Pierre Castonguay

agree with John Arnold. I use to duco cement or weld on. I have tried a number of glues and wood glue doesn,t glue plastic to wood. You need the glue to melt the plastic into the wood . I have seen way too many failures. Why take a risk you should use what you know will work. Look at all the issues with loose binding on some production guitars , Yes they used a number of the glues mentioned. Between 2008 to 2014. The amount of binding failures is alarming.
Duco or weld on . CA is also usable. If I do use CA I found the Locktite Medium Gel Super Glue. I like this the best as it doesn't run and stays put. Too often the failures don't show up for about two years or more.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Thanks all. If this were a new build I would have definitely gone with Duco. I've used it in the past and it works. As this is replacing the binding on an older guitar, using Duco would have seriously damaged the existing finish. I ended up doing a test with CA and it worked very well. I'm alomst done scraping the back binding (I had to stack tortoise and a black strip to get the thickness). The bond is great and there is almost no seam line between the layers, so I'm pleased. I'm waiting for some more binding to come in before tackling the top (tortoise/holly veneer/black plastic stack).

I also pulled the neck to address setup issues, and that is making the re-binding process so much easier. The neck pulled with about the cleanest dovetail I've seen. So nice to have one go easily!

-T

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Tony Thatcher
Bozeman, Montana