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I have a musician friend demoing a guitar and he likes it but claims the mids seem a bit muddy. Cedar top/Sapele B & S and have this feeling the top is too thin - .090 ish. When I glued it up the top pieces were re-sawn unevenly and I had to thin it to get rid of the step at the thinnest place in the joint. Thought it was too thin at the time as it just got really floppy cross grain but built it anyway.

Built another, pretty much identical but the top is actually thinner - sigh - maybe .08 in places. A consequence of more user error and my home built sander inconsistencies. As I was voicing the top I thought I heard it go 'dead' and I struggled with even using the top and I thought I'll never really know what a too thin top sounds like if I don't complete the guitar so went ahead anyway. Now I am doubting my decision.

The neck has not been attached yet and the finish needs leveling. So still a lot of choices.

My question - should I go ahead and complete the guitar, maybe just getting it playable to see what a thin top sounds like? Or re-top it now with a thicker top than even the original to see if I can get the muddiness out of the mids...if that's even a real accurate diagnosis of the tone...??

Thinking aloud here. Any feedback appreciated...

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IMO those tops are both likely to be 'way too thin, at least for the way I build. That assumes they're pretty 'typical' for WRC, which tends to be lower in density, and consequently less stiff along the grain at a particular thickness, that most spruce. As always, the only way to know for sure is to measure, but that's pretty normal. I'd think that .11"-.12" would be more like a 'normal' thickness for cedar on a steel string, and I've gone to .125" and a little more with some really low density ones. It's probably better to start over. The labor you put in is not worth much compared with the cost of new tops, and the loss to your reputation when they self-destruct is worth even more.

Thanks Alan,

Thinking along those same lines but will require a re-top at this point, which, I guess, will be a valuable skill to have. Will also know what a thicker top sounds like as well. No need to proceed immediately... but will probably just build a thicker top and learn how to -re-top..

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The big question is whether you have installed the binding yet. If not, then a re-top is no big deal.

Binding AND an arm rest - sheesh...

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That is awfully thin for cedar as mentioned. I've got some surprisingly stiff cedar that might be able to go to .100 or so but it's rare seeing cedar that stiff.

This is the retop method I use and it works quite well. The arm bevel might present a bit of a challenge with it but should work.

http://www.grevenguitars.com/tablet/retopping-demo.html

Thanks,

Had found that same re-top tutorial. Will be a huge challenge for my skill level but I spend most of my time fixing errors any way...

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Some of that depends on the body size as well. I just retopped a single 0 with Sinker WRC and thinned the top to .098 and it sounds great. So if you have a smaller guitar with a short scale it could be OK.

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Tim Benware
Creedmoor, NC

Thanks Tim, very helpful but I think this one was always going to be replaced. Leaning a bit towards finishing it up as it's nearly there and I will only have to remove the bridge as far as additional work. Still stewing...

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The issue is bridge torque. The lower the strings are off the top the less torque there is, and the thinner you can go with the top. You could just set the neck so the strings end up 1/4" off the top, and maybe get away with it. That would be a good experiment, and would tell you what a really thin top sounds like without exploding too quickly.

What gauge strings? What’s the scale length? Having built a thin topped ceded OM (top was 0.095, and very stiff there certainly are some dependents. But I suspect that if you finish the guitar, you’ll see the top rise up so much that it won’t even be playable because you’ll have no saddle coming out of the bridge... If your hell bent on finishing just to see, go for it. You’re already so close, but don’t forget that the body may change slightly due to the re-top, sanding, refinish that you’ll have to double check the neck alignment too...


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Thanks Rod, good advice. Light strings, 25.4 and it's 00 ish sized with a single waist. I 'V' braced this guitar - see last pic in this thread

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51481

which completely changes the dynamics around the bridge and bridge plate. The bracing and top are ridiculously stiff along the grain and 'V' braces and may mitigate any tendencies to lift at the bridge, even with the thin top.

Built the exact same model, thicker top maybe .09 with virtually no discernible movement/lift at the bridge. Pretty sure I'm going to complete as is, then re-top if it sounds bad. Might re-top any way just to see what I can learn...

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