Official Luthiers Forum!

I gotta tell you, pal...if one COULD accurately qualify the acoustical modifiers of the human ear and then directly compensate for those qualifiers in an instrument lacquer...he ought to be solving world hunger...not making lacquer.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

A lacquer replicating a human ear? I think that would be a "not".

I think my BS meter is going off!
While the ear canal does act as a Helmholtz resonator that boosts frequencies between 2k and 5k by 20 dB, I don't see how a finish material can affect the harmonic resonance frequencies of a guitar to any significant degree.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

I don't think that's what he said either.

He's saying that everyone hears things differently and under different conditions, and if you can prove that everyone will be able to hear a difference because of the lacquer, than you are smart enough to be doing something truly great for the world.

If that makes any sense...Correct me if I'm wrong Stuart, but that's how I read your statement.

Lol...two examples of gullibility in as many posts.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Hmm....I've been reading these builders forums for about 14yrs now and never heard anyone mention the miracle C37 lacquer.
I'm really pissed at you guys for holding out on me all these years

I'm not interested in this product, simply due to the "I'm not spamming you" spam post, and the argumentative nature of the poster, who claims not to be compensated but seems to have an intense stake in selling more cesium-137 or whatever laquer.

The number of beautiful sounding guitars out there with standard laquer as well as the number of crappy sounding guitars with the same laquer says that finishes are not magic, and I can pretty much count on my skill as a builder being the main determinant factor in the final outcome of the instrument.

You say that tests have been performed, described them specifically, and mentioned that some of the testers had sensitive hearing and gave specific numbers.

Do you have the names of any of the testers, and were the tests and results recorded and published?

If so, how can we verify this?

If not, how is this thread anything more than a spam advertisement full of unproven assertions designed to sell product?

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Apparently it improves more than guitars.

It seems that ANY surface you coat with it will be improved sonically to the human ear no matter what! You could paint your CAR with it, and it would improve the sound of the stereo! If you paint the car stereo circuit board with it, same thing! Add the laquer to the SPEAKERS, and HOLY MOTHER OF THE LORD!!!!

I was curious to see if those links led to as slimy a salesman as I thought they would, and the answer is "Yes".

Oh, and 500ml (half a liter) is $800.00 EUROS, or $1063, + $40 shipping.

You don't even get free shipping for that price!

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I've never heard of C37 Lacquer, please name some of these top builders using this miracle product.

You'd think if they were going to jack cc#'s they'd be smart enough to price it lower.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Scientifically proven, eh? That appeals to me; I like science. I am a career scientist with scores of research papers in peer-reviewed international journals, and have been referee for many more. Not too hard to verify that, although I confess that acoustics is not my field of expertise.

Indeed, I quickly found a peer-reviewed paper that mentions C37 and Mr. Ennemoser:
Wright, MCM (2006) A short history of bad acoustics. J. Acous. Soc. Am. 120: 1807-1815
It can be found at: http://resource.isvr.soton.ac.uk/staff/pubs/PubPDFs/Pub8683.pdf

I'm afraid Wright doesn't have much good to say about C37 or its inventor (it's in the section on "Snake oil for the ears").

Perhaps you'd like to share some of the other published science, by giving citations to peer-reviewed references?

Maybe this stuff is so expensive because it is made from real human ears.

Right, because the fake bogus Cesium-137 has the price jacked up too high.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

i knew i'd never consider buying this product the moment i saw the words "miraculous" and "holy grail" in the description....

Um...woof...

...unless Dieter will take a check.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

actually, high end speakers are made of MDF or HDF, ie, compressed sawdust.....because it tends not to resonate, or, if it does resonate, it does so in very predictable and consistent ways which can then be addressed efficiently through design and treatment. if a speaker enclosure resonates, it starts producing sounds that were not originally in the program material, thus....it is no longer a "high fidelity" component. so IF high end speaker enclosures are "made of wood" [which they aren't], AND C37 "improves the tonal quality" of the wooden hifi enclosures, then i can only surmise that the C37 laquer dampens vibrations much like Rhino rubberized pickup bed liner does- and that would not be good for acoustic instruments

I call BS....but it has been a funny read.

All posts that start "This is NOT span" are just that.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

"I DO NOT HAVE ANY STAKE IN THIS AND I AM NOT MAKING ANY MONEY OF CONVEYING THIS INFORMATION"

So why are so adamant about defending it. $8,800/ gallon? (1095/pint), really? think about it.
You need some smarter folks with more money to hang with, unless of course you want to come back to reality and actually talk about guitar building.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

I heard the preparation C37 was a failure, along with preparation A-G. Only Preparation H will do everything the OP claims AND relieve the burning and itching associated with the condition he is so very similar to.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

...can you french polish with Preparation H?

I dunno, it sounds to me like the 6th, 8th and 12th modal structures are being suppressed in the file above.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Yes. It is amazing stuff. If you paint your rear end with it, your wife will be bagging you to fart because your gaseous emissions will sound so good. Paint it on a new born and their cries will sound like Pavarotti. Paint it on your wife and her complaining will sound like angels singing to you. It does it all.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I forget how basic economic rules work, so the more of a demand there is for something, the lower the price drops so we can all have it?

Regardless, lacquer isnt for sound enhancement, it's for protection.

If you are dumb enough to believe there is a magic lacquer, you are dumb enough to shell out that much money for half a liter. I am still waiting to see you back up your claim that top guitar makers use this, please provide links to those guitar builders.

....because no one in here believes the premise: that a magic laquer provides "better tonal quality" than other conventional finishes. maybe it does, but nobody here believes so.

as far the carburetor analogy, any Joe Shmoe can experiment in his driveway and get tangible results as far as increased power goes- he can then go to a library and see those observations backed up in countless respected engineering texts if he so pleases, with diagrams, calculations, charts, and so on...but not so with your Miracle Laquer. you have a lot of skeptics: prove it. that's all you have to do...sales pitches alone aren't going to work