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The hole itself I think is sized about right but the border may optically suggest something larger....but maybe not.

What do you think?

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

I like it.....using elements of the perimeter & pickguard to suggest the f-hole shape. The hole itself might be a bit small ref acoustics (I'm guessing) but you're not really after that. It works. (..wish I had the chops to render like that!)

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Dave
Milton, ON

Looks fine. I take it the border will be some type of contrasting material? Looks good to me.

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http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

Love the F-hole. I would consider perhaps putting the control pots and switches at a skew to sort of mirror the F-hole and bring some symmetry inside an asymmetrical shape just to draw contrast and add some visual appeal.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

looks cool, but i think the reason traditional f-holes had a "ball" on each end was to quell splitting...

Dave...that's really not a typical rendering but rather...the actual model Solidworks displays while drawing. I'm able to split the face and color the edges so I can visually design how that border is going to turn out. It very accurately depicts the finished guitar and I want those bands to have SMOOTH curves. Believe it or not...I spend about as much time tweaking that surface to get those bands smooth looking as I do designing the rest of the guitar.

Chameleon...the F-hole border is a wooden inlay of the same wood as the main body....the outer color.

B. Howard...I tried every which way to make that symmetry happen but note the top carving is not symmetrical....I'm worried that if I made the F-holes symmetrical the difference in the surfaces would foul up the visual on it anyway. So I decided to highlight the non-symmetry in this way. Besides....moving the knobs and switches around forces a redesign of the carved surface and there's more to that than meets the eye.

nyazzip...you could be right about that. It would be pretty easy to layer in a cross grain reinforcement before the closure of the 'box'...if it presents a problem.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Stuart, I'm not talking about changing the shape of the surfaces, just moving the controls slightly. Of course the cavity underneath may need to shift a bit. Bridge selection and hardware may determine how far you can go. Excuse my crude cut and paste, Graphics programs are not all that great here, but I was thinking something like this. Adds a sense of balance without being a dead on mirror image. Would also improve reach of the volume pot while playing which can be nice in certain instances. FWIW.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Look's great!
Can't wait to see progress.
DZ

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Ah...yeah...not bad at all. I'll mess around with the idea. I have to draw the bridge in there to see how much room there really is. Skewing the knobs offers the possibility of smoothing out that curve that comes around them...the one thing that I would spend time trying to improve.

Nice call.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

I like what Brian did.
looks sexier.
Is this a chambered job?
Nice modern shape!
A

Ya...me too. The man just became my brain trust.



One big chamber...as in a standard semi hollow-body without a block dividing the halves. There is a block connecting the front and back plates under the bridge only. The pickups will mount on a riser coming up from the back plate. They do not connect to the top plate. Maybe that's hard to visualize. Imagine the pickup is stable and the top plate is able to vibrate without actually touching the pickup. It's just an idea. I have no expectation of it producing any particular result.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Looks nice. I wouldn't go bigger.

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com

I like it, Z. Rock on with your bad self.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Thanks guys, but ya got to remember even a broken clock is right twice a day............

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Can't wait to see it,
but even more,
can't wait to HEAR it!
What pick-ups?
Good line about the clock!

Aesthetically, its very pleasant to look at both originally, but also the re-rendering stretch version as well... I would think that the forearm would cover most of it while playing however (on acct of position and size) and I dont think you could switch it to the other side on account of your controls ... however as far as just sitting there it will look smashing.. which lets face it is also important for garnering interest in the model, advertising, etc...
Cheers
Charliewood

I have half a dozen different sets I could try. I'm making four of this prototype with different woods.

Probably Dimarzio Air Norton and Tone Zone in one.
A set of Dimarzio Air Classics in one.
Seymour Duncan 59 SH1 and Jazz SH2 for one.
Seymour Duncan P-Rails for one.

And I also have a set of boutique Vintage Vibe I could use but I think I'll use those in one of the older style guitars nearing completion. I had them made to be a little hotter and to have a little more bottom than the SH1 and SH2 combo that I have in another guitar. I want to compare them side by side in two guitars made with the same woods...to see if this fellow can really control these subtle tonal aspects. I'm not doubting him. I just want to able to say what I have control over to customers.....and what I don't....and right now I'm not sure.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

My comment: I'd re-draw the f-hole upper point so that the boundary nearest the bass edge is an equal distance from that edge all the way to the point. Then I'd adjust the boundary nearest the center line of the instrument until it pleased my eye. Now...that's just what I would do. You asked, so I'm giving feedback. But it isn't my guitar, so it really doesn't matter what I would do. Still, it won't hurt to draw out a modified plan just to see what it looks like before committing yourself to cutting holes in pricy wood.

Press on, and best of luck,
Patrick

Hey Stuart,
A bit off-topic, but I want to ask how you achieve such a well defined line between the top plate and body wood across a carved surface. I did your carved tops using different species.
Is this a product of accurate CNC?
I've tried feathering with sandpaper with poor results.
I also end up with a glue line that won't go away.
Thanks,
DZ

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

I think you should make it a little bigger. I made a Gibson Byrdland knockoff my style. Aspen top/Maple center. I changed the F-holes somewhat due to change in tonewoods. Moved them back to get more tone out of the front. The guitar sounds great. The shape is sorta like yours. Yours if more flamey. Love it. I did mine kinda in a tribal way. I think what ever you do it will turn out awesome.

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

Sorry...I didn't see this earlier.

Getting those rings to come out the way they do is MUCH more complex than meets the eye. It's one thing to draw it...but in order to make it happen as depicted several things HAVE to happen. Control over the thickness of the three plates that comprise the body is critical from start to finish. The process that creates those rings is the last cut I make on the body. If the plate thickness is not controlled tightly along the way then errors will compound along the way and the end result is...less than predictable. It won't necessarily look bad when it's done....it just won't be exactly as designed. So each panel gets a series of cuts that alter the thickness and the thickness has to be measured and monitored throughout the process. No particular challenge with cnc equipment...but you have to constantly check along the way.

It will LOOK bad if I don't control the glue line or select the proper combination of woods.

Without the proper pressure the glue line will be uneven...and it will look crappy...especially where the cut is shallow (it's a 5 degree angle where your right forearm rests). I made some tests of this glue line with small test panels. I have some vices with published specs that tell me how much pressure I'm applying with X amount of torque. That allowed me to do a series of tests with small panels to know how much pressure was necessary to minimize the glue line. It's about 250 psi. That means I have to apply about 70,000 lbs to the two front plates when they are glued. I had to engineer and make a hydraulic press to do that. The press and a few of the little test panels is pictured below.

Another issue comes up when using that much pressure. 250 psi is enough to begin crushing some species. It works out pretty well mating a softer species with a harder one but it DOESN'T work to mate two softer species together. What happens then is the softer wood between the grain lines gives way but the grain lines don't...and you end up with a scalloped glue line. At a shallow cutting angle all this gets amplified. This doesn't happen When mating a softer species with a harder one because the harder one remains perfectly stable under pressure and the softer species conforms to the harder one. Of course....two hard species is no issue whatsoever. As an example. I'd love to use Port Orford Cedar for a body wood with curly Redwood as a facing....but it'll never work with this design unless I put a layer of something REALLY hard in between them. Maybe an ebony fretboad with a thin ebony band would look good artistically in this case...but you see...the glue line forces some artistic challenges here and there.

Lastly....I use a specific epoxy and a specific spreader to apply it. I made the spreader myself. It leaves tiny, parallel rows of epoxy on each surface such that the distribution of the film is quite even...for being hand spread. Then...the epoxy I use remains in a liquid state longer than any other glue. Time is required for the pressure to evenly distribute the liquid. Epoxies have specific characteristics of viscosity under stress and heat during the cure (called 'rheology'). This one requires that I get the plates into the press and hold the pressure for 12 hours. The hydraulic press is also heated and maintains a temperature of 120 degrees throughout the cycle.

Yes...ok...it's not feasible to do all this if you're not set up for it...but I'd emphasize that most of this is necessary because of the really shallow angle that I have on the body. I'm kind of stubborn about my visions. I hope some of the information is helpful though.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Gotcha...make sure the next time you answer one of my questions it's 3:10.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Thanks Stuart!
I figured it would not be an easy task.
I've started using epoxy along edges of joints, at least the glue lines don't gum up while sanding.
Thanks for the insight, for now I'll just enjoy viewing your builds and stick to the basics.
I still need to improve my basic joint making skills.
DZ

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

The new knob/switch position.

I tightened the distance between the switches and I think that's going to look pretty cool when it's all done. I also worked on the f-hole lining as well...thinned it up a bit.

Thanks again, Brian.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Sweet!
Love it!

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah