Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi, I'm new to the forum and I'm not a luthier, just a guitarist. I want to buy a new squier stratocaster because I've heard great things about it and I recently compared it to an american standard, american deluxe, and a mexican standard and thought that for the $350 price tag it was a no brainer to get the Squier.

The guitar I want is called the Squier classic vibe 1950 strat... what I want to do is (on the body) remove the polyester shine and re-finish it with a nitrocellulose lacquer instead. But I don't want to remove the paint, just the plastic like coating on the top. As you know, these days these guitars look plastic and fake and to be honest when I saw the neck/fretboard/headstock on this guitar yesterday at the music store I wanted to puke... you can see a thick coating of polyester on it.

Not only do I want to do that to the body but I would also like to take off the polyester finish from the headstock, fretboard, and neck... again because it looks too much like a toy and I want it look like what a 1965 fender would look like the day it was made (and age at the same pace as the 1965).

This is the guitar in fiesta red... you can even see in the picture how cheesey the headstock looks....
http://www.drumcityguitarland.com/drumc ... Guitar.jpg


What I'm asking is how can I do what I want to do? It works out good that I want to get rid of this polyester finish on the headstock and neck and fretboard because I'm going to purchase some fender decals online and once I put those on then I can re-lacquer the headstock/neck with some spray can nitrocellulose lacquer... even tho I'm going to later sand the back of the neck I want the parts that remain unsanded (near the back of the headstock and down near the end of the neck) to also age at the same pace as the rest of the guitar

why don't you just play it?

From what I understand you can play a guitar with a polyester finish for 30 years and as long as you don't intentionally scratch it and bump it into things it will still look brand new, I'm not looking for a relic here I'm looking for it to realistically age as I play it... and I hate the over shined look of the polyester. On the body it doesn't bother me too much but I can't stand looking at the plastic like headstock and neck/fretboard.

Rub it with Scotchbrite if you want to dull the finish... if you think you can remove the clear, without touching the color.... not gonna happen.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

ahhh ic, thank you! I don't know anything about this stuff so I appreciate the reply to what's probably a "dumb question". How long do you think it would take to dull the shine on the body with the scotch brite pad? I know it depends on how dull I want to go but I just don't want the body to look so shiny, and for the headstock and neck and fretboard I want it to be considerably duller.

Also, I've heard with these waterslide decals you can get for the headstocks they're easy to apply, after I apply them with the water or water/glue mixture should it be fine or should I maybe get a can of that lacquer i was talking about and just go over it a little bit?

BTW, $350 seems expensive for a Squire.
I sanded off the finish on an old Mustang guitar. That stuff was about 1/10" thick.
A heat gun does a faster job.

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

I compared the Squier to a Fender American Standard, American Deluxe, and a Mexican... obviously the American Standard was nicer than the Squier but they were $1,100 and the Squier wasn't all that far behind it. Squier's quality has went up lately. Do you think if I take scotch-brite to the headstock the Squier decal will come off quick or do you think it was probably laid on before any of the clear coat layers were put on?

You could do the neck and body in 10 minutes.



Decals already have glue on them (at least the ones I applied did).
And true lacquer applied over polyester will destroy the finish.

I suggest you read up on the difference between lacquer and plastic finishes..... you sound like many folks who think lacquer is clear ONLY and that is incorrect.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Rubbing the finish with scotchbrite will not make your guitar look like it was finished with lacquer. It will only make the finish look flat and dull rather than shiney, think frosted glass. To do what you want you would need to strip & re-finish completely. The finish is part of the reason that the other guitar costs more out of the box and if the type of finish means that much to you maybe you should just purchase the one with the lacquer finish to begin with. FWIW, if someone was to bring me a new strat to be re-finished neck and all as you are looking to do I would charge between $500-$700 depending on exactly what type of finish (solid, burst, etc.) You wanted.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

What you want sounds like a Highway One. They have a thin nitro finish and are not buffed to a gloss. I'd look for a used one. They sell, or sold, for around $750 (sometimes less) so you possibly could possibly find a used one in a reasonable price range. Or you could find a Highway one neck and swap it. I have a friend that has one of the newer squire classics. He likes it. It isn’t a bad guitar. They certainly have improved over the years.

The shine will be lost on the Squire after a while. At least it won’t look like in the store new once you start playing. You won’t be happy with scuffing with the scotch brite alone. If finish is that important, you won’t be happy redoing yours unless you know what you are doing.

I don’t mean to shoot your plan down, but I just think a different approach might be a better move.

You may be able to soften the shine (and not make it completely matte) by wet sanding with some of the finer grits of micro mesh - same idea as the Scotch Brite but much finer abrasive.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Yep...looks like it was dipped in red candy. I guess you could scuff up the finish but it still won't " age" with playing. Probably not worth the cost of a re finish either. I'd say just use it and personalize it with decals or other graphics you like. It probably wont be the last guitar you ever buy so don't worry about how it will look in 20 yrs

Sometimes it's nice to have a good cheap guitar you don't have to worry about

No worries friend, I just want everyone's honest opinion and you've given it!

I think I'm just going to get the fiesta red model because it doesn't look ridiculously shiny and leave it, but I do want to take off the Squier logo and put my own fender decal on it... do you think it will be easy and quick to get off the headstock with the scotch-brite stuff? I shouldn't have to worry about it being far down and having to go through the vintage maple stain?

Once I put the decal on I'm probably just going to get some spray can lacquer from the hardware store and do 2-3 thin coats and call this whole thing a day. I don't want to do so much work just on a Squier I guess I'd rather just play the guitar and abuse it and see how banged up it is after a year, i don't like the idea of relic-ing it within a day or weekend or something... but I want to just purposely miss-treat it and see where I am in a year

Leave the logo alone. Changing a logo will not make it a better guitar and you will always know it is a Squier. Impress people with your playing abilities, not your ability to falsify a meaningless tag or decal.

By the way - my suggestion would be to get an after market unfinished neck and finish it the way you want.

My real suggestion - same some more dough up and get guitar you really want - you will be happier with it, and it will be with you longer since you will have more respect for it.

_________________
It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX

I want to change the logo, already have the decal ordered anyways... it's just something I want to do for fun.

I'll eventually get a nice American Standard but I just got out of college and money is tight. i've been asking around too and a lot of people who own american strats and the squier have said they like both guitars equally and that the Squire is extremely under priced. The one I tried in the store didn't blow my mind (was still great) but maybe the one I ordered online will. Hopefully I'll get the one that everyone actually put time and effort into during their shift at the Squier factory in China that day haha

I just want to know if you think I'll take off the vintage stain before I get to the decal itself? Because the neck is stained to look like a vintage fender
(see here: http://www.drumcityguitarland.com/drumc ... Guitar.jpg )

I don't want it to have that new looking bleached headstock with the vintage stained fretboard... will look weird as F

I think there is a good chance that that would happen if you try and sand your way down to the original decal. There is also a chance that it will look "weird as F" anyway if you try and pull of the fake logo plan. Practice on Scrap first so that you know what you are doing.

If you look at the resale value of the squire guitars today, they actually hold their value quite well. When it comes time to trade up to an American, that will be something to consider. If you remove the decal and try and fake that it is not a Squire, you have wrecked the value all together.

Gonna chime in here and point out that its not so much whether its a squire or a fender, it's more important to pick an individual guitar based on its feel. In other words you may find some fenders with the same paint, pick guards and necks feel different than one another. Same goes for squires. It's not really fender v squire as much as THIS fender v THIS squire or this squire v this squire etc...

I learned a long time ago if you want to pick a good electric, play it unplugged first. This will help you concentrate on the resonance and feel of the guitar. The electronics can always be switched later, but a poorly constructed guitar will always feel flat.

Gonna chime in here and point out that its not so much whether its a squire or a fender, it's more important to pick an individual guitar based on its feel. In other words you may find some fenders with the same paint, pick guards and necks feel different than one another. Same goes for squires. It's not really fender v squire as much as THIS fender v THIS squire or this squire v this squire etc...

I feel like its déjà vu all over again...

Ya when I went to the music store the first thing I did was play both of the Squier classic vibes they had for 10 minutes each unplugged, then i played the fenders unplugged for a bit then did an amp comparison. One of the fenders felt awful (the deluxe), and the standard felt great. I don't want to go through the stained finish but I already ordered the Fender decal... fudge!

What you could do is....

And this is going to sound sort of dumb.... but you already ordered the decal.

When the guitar comes in, take a photo of the headstock. Photoshop out the Squire logo and get it so it is a good representation of the wood grain. Either photoshop in the Logo you bought or print out just the wood background and stick that on over the squire logo. If you just did the wood grain step, then stick the logo to the sticker. It would be cool if you could print it on some of that self adhesive plastic stuff like they stick to windows for decoration. Sure if someone looks they will notice it, but you can remove it when the time comes no harm done.

I know that is totally not what you want to hear, but just an idea.

FWIW, it's generally frowned upon to put a Fender decal on something that's not a Fender...or generally to use a trademark/logo in a way that misrepresents the product, even if your intentions aren't to defraud. I would never do it for someone in my shop, and I don't know any luthier that would, though I'm sure there are plenty.

Ya, I know it's frowned upon so I guess if anyone doesn't like the idea of me doing it they don't have to help me/reply on this thread but trust me I've been ripped off before and I'd never think of selling this to anyone as a Fender or anything (and since this guitar is $380 new I'm not going to sell it period...)


I think I found a good way to do this... I sand the headstock down to bare wood and then I can use some Mohawk brand amber toner. but I'm not sure about the order of things.

I think this is right but someone could probably tell me:

Sand the headstock down (starting off with a thicker grit then going down to fine, fine stuff eventually.. that I understand.)
Clean the headstock with alcohol whipes
Use a sealer ( http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog ... ictNbr=430 ) (don't even know if i need to do this..)
Apply the toner (the amber model) ( http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog ... ictNbr=170 )
Apply some clear coats of this http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog ... ictNbr=437

then after that I wouldn't know what to do...

and by the way, I looked up some people who are using that toner and i understand that it can be pretty heavy so you're supposed to apply light light coats from like 2 feet away...