Official Luthiers Forum!

Right... the fact that it's free doesn't bear into it.

Who do you think you're foolin'?

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

...with a little Chamen thrown in.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Sound good to me too, so I just pulled some outta my ears and noticed there are small insect parts and hairs mixed all in it. Guess I could heat it up and see what crap floats to the top. Kinda like a small refinery, keep the good grade wax for the pots.....

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"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

Having worked in the audio manufacturing industry I would like to chime in from the business angle.

Accounting.
Accountants play a major role in large-scale business. I used to wonder why my $2000 preamp shipped with lousy capacitors. It's only a $0.07 difference from the cheapies to the best ones. But to your accountant, that's $2/unit saved on a single component in the build. Do this for multiple components, multiple units.. This can make the difference between layoffs and Xmas bonuses. The percentage jump to from $1.50/lb and $5.00/lb is huge when you're running a business.

Delivery/Consistency.
You have X number of employees/expenses, you have to sell X number of pickups each week to pay for it all. If bees wax suppliers can't get their hands on the volume you need, you need to source an alternative. These companies can't afford to wait 2-4weeks for delivery of "specialty wax." And perhaps waxA does test better sonically, but if the results vary from batch to batch it can be a real nightmare. And you can't be a pickup manufacturer who gets a call from Musician's Friend saying, "We're getting complaints that the pickups sound different." "Oh yeah, well we had to import beeswax from Chile this month, and they dilute it with a synthetic blah blah blah.." You're gonna get dropped.

Perception.
Though we know that the sonic differences between waxA and waxB are negligible, if the "guitar community" is of the opinion that waxA makes pickups sound better, then, as a manufacturer who hopes to sell products, you may have to play along. Even if it's wrong, selling pickups is more important than not selling pickups.

Testing.
Bill Lawrence probably started out winding each unit by hand, testing each unit, listening carefully for hours to each pickup... and that's how great businesses begin - with passion, late nights, attention to detail. I'm sure Paul Reed Smith doesn't personally approve of every guitar that leaves there, you know? To streamline the pass/fail option, manufacturers have all sorts of bench tests to simulate real-world testing. Frequency sweeps, impedance, magnetic field strength.. all measured by a computer program. And even though waxA may sound great, the computer response shows a visual that there's a 2dB dip in gain from 800Hz to 3kHz. So it fails. There is so much more to it than sound at that level. If the computer shows that paraffin is more consistent from pickup to pickup or from supplier to supplier, or maybe it doesn't change over time...

But we can't afford a pickup set that was tested and approved by Steve Vai himself. It's a juggling act between product and cost. I didn't mean to write a novel, I just wanted to show that it's not always a sonic decision.

Well, there is a measurable difference in the dielectric constant of beeswax vs paraffin...it's tiny, but it's a significant percentage of the dielectric constant. (2.somethingsmall vs 2.somethingbigger). We are talking about tiny currents in a high very high impedance system when you toss in the amp...who knows? There's a much more practical reason to shun beeswax, though. Beeswax melts around 150F. Paraffin melts at about 120F. I'd much rather dunk a pickup in a lower temperature bath than have to be super careful with higher temperatures. That's right there should be enough to shun beeswax without having to invoke fairy dust.

No pickup sounds bad,
just different from each other sometimes.
I have some fake P-90's that cost $10 each,
and they sound great for some types of music.

For the record, I always used paraffin.... I stole my mother's canning paraffin for my first potting job. For those who want to hunt it up - I wrote a "how to" article for an early issue of "String Instrument Craftsman" back when Guitar Player mag published it.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Todd, I would like to add that if Chuck Norris were to donate ear wax for pickup potting, the sonic characteristics would far and away exceed that of any other pickup known to man and, without any intervention from Lance, this thread would automatically be wiped from existence!

I'm just sayin.

Who you callin a fool?

Okay my comment sounded more intense than I intended. What I meant to say is clearly no one has been proven right or wrong on the subject (and it's doubtful they will) so instead of attacking each others beliefs about Lindy Fralin, we should all take the comments for what they're worth and try not to attack each other over something that doesn't matter much in the first place.

I mean what's the real argument here? Side A believes Lindy is a jerk for cheaping out on materials and covering it up, Side B believes it's possibly Lindy really can tell the difference, and indeed prefers the sound of potting with parrafin over beeswax.

I'm still going with Side C: Lindy probably switched to parrafin to save money on the notion that the sound either wouldn't change or would improve, and has become satisfied with his results.

But even more importantly, I think everybody needs to play nice! It's pretty much the only rule of this forum. You can disagree with someone without calling them a poo poo head and a pee drinker.

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http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

I don't think he is a jerk, just full of it and using this as a ruse to save costs. I don't think his theory would pass a blind test in the least

Nobody...but since astrology is basically revisited, modernized shamanism...and since the odds of being able to relate your point in any way to your handle (much less relate it splendidly...as I did) is basically ASTRONOMICAL....I went ahead and did it.

It's one of those once in a lifetime things.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

That's my point, its all in the blend'in man.



Just so folks know, in Australia we only ever use genuine blah blah blah, if those sneaky cheaped out Chileans have started substituting with synthetics then its little wonder Fralin dumped them and swung over to paraffin cause those synthetics will make any pickup sounds as muddy as a half empty drink trough after a dust storm every time.







































































Hey Stuart...are you a Scorpio???



















Cheers

Kim

This makes sense, assuming conditions are the same and his business volume is the same as it was then, and he has maintained the identical mindset. If he has employees and requires a certain volume to keep everyone happy and his shop open, well, people change.......

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Im interested to try Kims blend but I did my last pair of humbuckers in another fine Australian Wax
http://www.palmerssurf.com.au/
What fantastic tone!

I hope you had to look up how to spell that. A true shaman would not have to wonder about my astral sign...or how to spell it.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Not touching that.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

I think the true mahogs really open up at a higher RH.
The wax potting melts at different temperatures,
so, ya don't want to leave an electric guitar in the car trunk on a hot day.
I've noticed the parafin wax melts at 98 degrees f.,
and the beeswax melts at 101 degrees f.
Something to think about.
The beeswax definitely has more of a "hum" to it.

What charliewood said!!!

I've got a brother with a hair splitting ear like that. He drives me crazy, but he ups my game.

cecil

Filippo[/quote]

The beeswax definitely has more of a "hum" to it.[/quote]





I tend to stay clear of arguments over tone. It is like arguing over which is better, vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, rocky road, tuti-fruti, or (add your favorite here if it hasn't been mentioned yet). And this discussion is even more dangerous, we are now trying to determine who makes the best chocolate, Hershey's, Nestle's, M&M Mars........

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

The beeswax definitely has more of a "hum" to it.[/quote]







Clearly, vanilla is the best flavor. I think it's obvious. And chocolate? Cadbury. Easily.

And guy's, hate to break it to you but the tone of your guitar has nothing to do with potting wax. New research determines that all tone comes from the color and shade of your hair. As for me, I'm stocking up on color changing hair dyes. I'll have the most tone out of all of ye!

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http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

I knew how to spell it. And I wouldn't be surprised if you're both wrong. But I also wouldn't be surprised if there were both Scorpio and Sagittarius in his astrological chart.

My more specific guess would be Scorpio rising. How bout it Zlurgh?

Although he might be too enlightened to know.

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http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

When I use beeswax I get bad buzzing.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Not saying...but researching it I discovered I share a birthday with Franz Liszt.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Dang you're like 201 years old. I took you for maybe 35.

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http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

This whole wax change thing reminds me of the Coca-Cola plot to replace real sugar with corn juice.
I'm a Pepsi guy now.
The old beeswax pickups will become coveted and expensive. Just like 50-year old capacitors, "vintage" wire, and really crummy opamps used in Tube Screamers.
Usually new and improved means cheaper.
Sorry, I'm old and just had to complain.
Dan

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah