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Well, I wanted to be able to do electric guitar bodies and necks. I am building up my shop to enter the electric guitar copy wars. So, my front porch will be full of big boxes, likely tomorrow. I bought a Terrco Marlin duplicator carver.It is the CM-624, and ordered one foot longer than standard for a total of 48" cutting on long axis, 24" maximum width. I have a 59 spec LP body for making a master and I am working on a master Strat style that can be bound, and the same for the more commonly bound Tele style. At the same time I am trying to make the masters do double duty for my two overarm pin routers. The flat backs on the electrics will let me do very precise and literally easy binding/purfling cuts, neck mortises and pickup routs.
As always, I fear taking something enjoyed and making it into work. But with so many hours now available, I figured I had better do something constructive.It is probably nuts in this economy, but there needs to be a way for hard working guitarists of all ages to upgrade affordably.So, there will be grades of guitars and possibly kits surpassing Saga. I'll need all the luck and help I can get. Scary and exciting all at once. AND, the even bigger plan- I can just shut my eyes while shaping and have, ta-daa, "relics" worth twice the price! MT

Wow, congratulations, Mike! That's big news indeed. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you're able to develop. Are you planning on offering necks for these bodies? Les Paul necks aren't anywhere to be found on the market.

Soulmate does nice necks and price is in the ballpark, especially considering fretboard. Mine is being done by Roman Rist, a well-known LP and other electric maker. I intend to do necks because it is definitely easier to buy an LP body than the set style neck. Believe it or not, bodies are easier-the headstock angle and a couple other quirks make the neck more complex. Necks require much more other traditional sawing, chiseling, routing,drilling and the like.mt

I don't know if this is within the rules, or not, and if not, please tell me and I will delete or the mods can.

What is the average machine carved neck going for, and to what degree are they finished, ie, tuner holes, rod slots, and the degree of accuracy on the dovetail???

Mike

That's really open-ended. The degree of accuracy would depend on the supplier. The cost would depend on the supplier, as well, but also on what's done to the neck (headstock cut, tuner holes, truss slots, etc) and the degree of finish. I have customers that want everything from 'basic roughed out' to fully glued up and sanded necks with truss rods in 'em.

I don't really do retail level stuff anymore, but the same factors apply.

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

This is not the other place- we can talk money here. In fact, Deb changed policy and one can discuss what something costs as long as one is not touting his/her own wares. Soulmate does gorgeous(feminine word, but inherent beauty sometimes is best described that way) necks with basic fretboard for $225-and offers nice upgrades. I am paying that for a mostly shaped mahogany, trussrod installed( I decree that since "trussrod" is a term of luthier art, It Shall Henceforth Be set out as a single word!!! Ole'Lefty has spoken!), semi shaped headstock, neck. Roman is fitting for me. I have not done one before and though he trusts me some, he feels that the body is so nice he can't bear the idea that I might mess up- they are set at 4* down angle - even 4.4* can create problems. And the pickups are routed at an angle as well.
I don't know how Soulmate can do it-he says they are hand made-as opposed to CNC -and deuce and a quarter is cheap in my book. I had expected to sell a Les Paul neck, 90% profiled, tenon 1/32nd oversize, with masonite mortise template(good for several uses or more if the porous back is stabilized with CA), ready for trussrod for around $200 in routine but decent Mahogany- no fretboard in standard. Headstock drill for tuners at $10. $17.50 if two stage reaming needed, then would come headstock overlays and backstraps, aka "stingers." I have just had a few minutes to "play" assemble the Marlin Carver. It appears to be capable of being precise but smoothly mobile over the workpiece and may offer some very good inlay opportunities. I am going to add gas charged dampers to the unit to help with vibration. With Andy De P's help, I came up with an unused name, and tm is applied for. "MagicMustang Guitars, LLC" and I use his unicorn, but not exclusive to me.I can't afford the very fair cost of wrapping that up just for me. On my Les Paul style guitars I will be using wood coverplates and Michael Payne's beautifully designed "Mustang" inlay from Andy will be inlaid as an extra. Again, non-exclusive use.

Here is my dream for the future. My typical base guitar would be AAA curly maple, 5/8" to 3/4" carve, mahogany underbody,pre-bound in ivoroid/black 5 element binding-or cut for binding per spec, neck mortise and routed for dogears or HB's optional, white MOP plain block inlay neck and I want to use Pigtail super-light tailstops and ABR bridges{these alone are $400}. Control cavity covers would be optional, prefab vol.,vol-tone, tone pre soldered and QC gold pins optional(won't be a $50 upcharge, less; I have hundreds and a dedicated miniature crimper so they are easy for me. I add solder as well). Paint, foil or both for shielding. And I have either cloth fully tinned multi-strand wire, teflon insulated tinned multi-strand and either 4 conductor shielded switch to cavity wire or single element exposed metal braid shielded.I did some moderately bulk buys. Then the usual suspects for caps. I like R&S super pots for volume and good solid CTS linear pots for tone.

Wood sanded to 240 and no finish. What do you folks think a package like that, assume good close fitting of components, should sell for? It would be helpful to hear your thoughts. In discussion, put the Pigtails on the "back burner." The inlaid bound neck is priced separately.A bound headstock would be an extra cost option too and plain ebony veneered headstock would be available.

I may have found a supply of LP style bare guitars, set necks for those who care, finished, and I may be able to get unassembled and unfinished neck -body units, routed for binding or not. That is a bit off in the future because there is much negotiation needed with all cultural sensitivities accorded.

HEY-I have to do something to stay out of trouble.Even if there is little or no profit, at least it would be worthwhile in the greater scale of things.mt-PS- Neil Ellis, owner of U-Beaut decided selling to an importer in the USA was not worth the bother. I had a good import agent lined up- had all of the requirements for both U-Beaut and myself sorted out. I think the paperwork was more effort than he cared to invest.mt

Mike, it sounds like you're describing a Les Paul Custom. If I were in the market, I would prefer the Standard with Standard inlays and Standard binding, routed for humbuckers. Electronics and hardware provided as an option only.

I can't tell---are you planning to include the neck already set?

James-I like LP's best of the electrics. But, since I am not a collector, I don't know all of the spec differences. I know that there are plain tops, gold tops, curly tops and really curlier tops. And the Standard has the single cream binding and no headstock bind. I will be happy to build whatever trim level is desired. The one I described is one I am building for myself. And, it is also the testbed for my carving and routing setup and fabrication skills. I had indicated that I had farmed out the first neck and body on MY guitar because my left rotator cuff is very painful and noisy- the right is not much better. At night if I roll over I get jolted awake. So, I have to be "mechanized for big wood removal. Building an electric guitar is much like restocking a fine shotgun or rifle- something I have done for 50 years- first restocking job was on my own rifle at 12 years old. Times were different and my Dad was a target handgun shooter so I have been around firearms my whole life. That first rifle was sold for 3 times what I paid for it. I kept doing it, even working as a full time gunsmith for the first year after law school as I sorted out my path.My family did a bucolic living experiment(built a beautiful house truly in the country) and at 10, in fifth grade I took my .22 cal. Smith & Wesson target revolver to show and tell . 'Twas greatly admired and no one screamed or called the law.(Terre Haute Indiana;Dad was a coal engineer and we lived there for a few years)
My goal is to offer electrics at whatever stage of completion is desired. The maple cap grain type and binding and subtle pearl differences can be done. There are nowhere near as many LP luthiers as there are acoustic builders. I am studying and making a notebook so that I can even do replicas(within trademark law). The one thing that I would charge extortionate dollars for is "relicing." To me it is not a verb. Electric guitars were meant to become relics in low down, hot and smoky bars pounding out real rock and hot blues shuffles. So, I would need three years or so to relic a guitar for someone-and cheap tequila-the kind that burns for ten seconds after the taste has gone, giving you your peso's worth. My email is jetobeyatmsn.com send me a note. I have lots of dry very curly maple, have the same source for plain maple and I am trying to find a reliable mahogany source. Right now I have ivoroid binding and black; also cream boltaron ala Martin, which will also work for LP standards. I'll try to attach a photo of my LP body( my other daily player is a Big Apple "Partscaster" I assembled- I lucked into 6 Strat necks with ebony boards) and I will be doing those S bodies and T bodies. MT

Hi Mike,

I sent you and email......gunstock related! Well....kinda!

Mike

A neck in the $200 range is definitely doable by hand. If you think of your material costs, that leaves a lot for labour. Kevin Ryan takes less than an hour, total, to do a neck by hand. There are very fast ways to make fretboards without CNC, as well.

If that price will stand up in the market is another thing, though. You can see what John Watkins charges for an acoustic neck, and there's about 2/3 as much time needed to do an electric neck (in my experience). If there is a market, or you build one, then you'll have to be prepared for competition from someone with CNC capability who might be able to price in that range, so consider ways of holding your clients or adding value.

I'll never serve that market (I only do quantity neck orders), and it doesn't look like John's interested in it, but it seems that every guy who gets his hands on a CNC router now wants to sell guitar parts and there are a lot of 'em around. It's those guys you need to worry about because, even though they might not have fast machinery, they're willing to price the time much lower to make up for it. That's why nobody can make a living doing woodturning or making wooden boxes: there are seemingly a billion retired guys selling that stuff for the cost of materials!

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Bob- that is a realistic and accurate portrayal of the true market. I agree that there has to be something I could offer that others won't. I don't know what that might be. I am not in a position to invest $6K in a Shopbot Basic- fact is I can't think in numbers so CNC is wasted on me. I would prefer to do guitars, but be able to realistically offer good bodies and necks for the guy who wants to build. Like many of those who eagerly retired(I was not eager or ready at all), I could become a drunk who can quote word for word every History Channel program, or call every play from famous football games on Sports Classics. I would prefer to do something worthwhile, and frankly doing it at a profit is important- but a good home shop does help control overhead. My Marlin was $1010 to my door and I trip over routers around here. I have a very straight and sturdy seasoned and stable oak table base for the Marlin already done-had a metal lathe mounted to it. Two decent bandsaws and two OPR's and two router tables(what is crazy is that I am really a handtool guy). I remove stock with power and finish by hand.
I checked out "soulmate." There is your example- a neck, fretted fingerboard installed and apparently properly dressed for $235. And, I am astounded that someone can make a ready to set and sanded neck in an hour. But, I have video of a Japanese master holding a billet of red oak with his bare feet, and with hammer and chisel making a very nice, plain but true handplane in 10 minutes-I counted-he still had 10 toes too.That isn't me. Let us hope that the price of aluminum goes sky high at the scrap yard so I can recover something from the carver-or, I can find a "fish" like me Mike---HEY-this forum has the best "smilies" anywhere!!!

The thing that's annoying to do with CNC is a one-of. The guy at Hanalei Moon is on to something because he's willing to do a one-of neck, to specs. He can't match the price I can on ten without going out of business, but I can't match the price he does on two without going out of business! Steal any good jig ideas you see (part of Kevin's speed is that he designed some great jigs!). You -will- get fast at any manual task you do repeatedly. You'll be very surprised how fast you get by your twentieth Les Paul neck or body; I've seen it happen with helpers I've brought on! You can also do a one-of duplicate of a sent-in neck at a good price.

If you can figure out how to get a small air grinder or router on that duplicarver to cut slots, and a program to print out custom fret scales, I get a decent number of people calling me every month (who I turn away) asking for small quantity blind slot fretboards with custom scales. It's something one with a duplicarver, a second fretboard, and a straightedge could do rather quickly.

I think there are lots of opportunities for you to succeed, especially with your (I assume) lower overhead. Play to your advantages and you'll do fine (and maybe get to build more guitars along the way than John and I have had the time to!).

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

What a great forum. Thanks, Bob. I won't give up before starting. I can get my Foredoms adapted to the Marlin for fret slots. And, I once successfully made a fretting template from 3/16 6061T6, the hardened aluminum. Did it by hand, more or less, using a miniature endmill bit in a Dremel-with the more precise and decent powered Foredoms, I can do that again. I am thinking about ordering an additional stylus arm and I can weld up a bracket for it that could hold two, maybe even three laminate routers(but multiple Foredoms would be less unwieldy) to do more than one fretboard at a time. Using the stylus arm just means I don't have to cut off the largish router motor cylindrical clamp Then, since I have good fretting files, I could offer that- rounded ends and super polished. As precise as the Marlin can be, I could even do headstock plates with inlay, but there are plenty of real masters here for that-maybe I could attract the "Walmart" inlay shoppers-and, block fretboard inlays would be a piece of cake.
I truly consider myself lucky that in my 62 1/2 years I have dived right into many different artisan activities and practiced until I was superior to most in a few categories. At least I have some hope of finding a niche' wherein I fit.

I do know that I will find guidance here- all of you are known for your generosity. I spoke for quite some time with Roman Rist last night and he encouraged me to give the Les Pauls a run and he offered his help whenever I might get stuck. Luthiers are special folks. Roman( if you don't know him, he has been building electric guitars from a Hollywood CA shop for many years) is an acknowledged master luthier for the Les Paul- heck, we even agree on politics. Thanks to all of you--- and, hot durn, I got to do a trial today- one of my last 4 or 5 files to complete. That sure felt great, the adrenaline and endorphins rushing through me.mt