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I used a 29" scale length on mine, tuned Bb and strung with the d'addario 14-70 set. And I love it! To ge the bridge in a more 'normal' place it's got a 15 fret neck joint

Compensation .. 2.5mm and a 3/16 saddle is what I use.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

There's not a lot of consensus on scale length or gauging. A baritone
guitar is usually defined as a guitar tuned a 4th or 5th below standard
pitch, so, BEADF#B or ADGCEA. The math is that as you increase the
scale and respective gauging the more bass content you get. Therein lies
the compromise.

Math isn't always practical. Here's why. If we assume that a standard
guitar is 25.4" scale, a bass which is an octave below standard is 34" and
a baritone is a 4th or a 5th lower than standard then you end up with the
following scales:

B = 25.4"+ [(34-25.4)(4/8)] = 29.7"

A= 25.4 + [(34-25.4)(5/8)] = 30.775"

While practical for all the mathematical model, if albeit linear in their
aspect, they don't take into consideration that most people's hands can't
handle scales that long -- at least if they want to use the instrument as a
fingerstyle instrument that is lower in pitch. It does, however, provide a
point of reference from which to discuss the baritone guitar, its scale
lengths and related gauging.

For many players, they want to have a guitar that tunes down to B, but
still has the presentation of a traditional guitar. This is the 27" scale.
Both the scale and gauging get you the midrange pop of a traditional
guitar. As you increase the scale and the gauging, you get more bottom,
more round, and less guitar -like presentation. These are the 28" and
longer scales.

I've used 28, 28.3, 28.59, and 30". I'm in the process of a guitar similar
to the one Tony described, for a customer, with a 27.5 - 28.75" scale.
They all have their merits, and it is a customer to customer thing as to
what scale, what gauging and what tuning will work best for them.

There is a debate among builders and players as to the scale and
gauging, primarily with respect to strings. The longer scales will require
you to use a 70 or larger on the 6th string. This is a double-wound
string, i.e., it has a core and TWO wraps instead of one. Depending upon
the manufacturer, metals, scale, guitar, that double wound string has a
slightly different presentation than a single wound. To some this is too
much of a difference. These are usually the folks who prefer the shorter
scales, i.e., under 28" because they have a higher midrange content and a
more guitar-like presentation. Others like the rounder presentation, and
expect it because they want the more baritone presentation.

What I find interesting in this regard is that no one mentions that there is
a difference in tone between the wound and unwound strings we already
accept on a guitar.

The one pitfall in all of this is that there is a limited variety of string
gaugings and thus the variety of scale lengths that will work well with
those strings is somewhat limited. Some scales lend themselves to easier
string selection, while others require a custom set.

[QUOTE=TonyKarol] Compensation .. 2.5mm and a 3/16 saddle is what I use.[/QUOTE]
Tony, was that to the front of the saddle slot on the high b? I may have used 2mm on my last one and I was running out of room for correcting the intonation.
-j.

_________________
“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

[QUOTE=jammy] I used a 29" scale length on mine, tuned Bb and strung with the d'addario 14-70 set. And I love it! To ge the bridge in a more 'normal' place it's got a 15 fret neck joint
[/QUOTE]
I like the sound from keeping the 14th fret at the joint, forcing the bridge more toward the center of the lower bout. It seemed to produce a slightly deeper tone. Maybe it just wishful thinking. Of course, it forced a wide variety of bracing changes, so it does have its challenges.
My last one was a 28.625", using the D'Addario baritone strings. They are guaged for a 29 scale tuned B-B, so they worked perfectly.
It sounded great (subjective, of course). It was for a bass player, so he really enjoys being able to snap that low B with such authority...it responds SO much better than a 5 string bass's low B. I'll be building several more in the near future.
-j.

_________________
“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

I find it interesting that a lot of baritone scale lengths used relate to (or are close to) more normal scale lengths when capoed at the second fret. For example 29" gives 27.75", 28.5" gives 25.4" and 27.5" gives 24.6". So if you take a big bodied 12 frets clear guitar body and add on two more frets at the nut end you get a 14 frets clear baritone with the bridge in exactly the same place on the body.

The baritone is also very versatile as you can vary the string gauges and where you tune down to. For example on my 29" scale length bari, I can use 12-52's and go down one step D-D. 13-53's and go down to C-C, or 15-70 for B-B or A-A. I agree with David that the double wounds give a "different" sound and I havent heard yet a bari that works well on the 6th string - truly acoustically and unplugged that is - at A-A. My favourite currently on my bari is using a set of medium gauge strings (13-53) with the Bb version of DADGAD tuning.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Dave White wrote:
"So if you take a big bodied 12 frets clear guitar body and add on two more frets at the nut end you get a 14 frets clear baritone with the bridge in exactly the same place on the body."

That's essentially what I did on that guitar: it's just about a 24.9" scale plus two frets. Mine is not technically a 'baritone'; it's normally tuned too high.

If you increase the string length and keep the same gauges it will take less force to fret and to pluck; the strings will feel softer. Harp maakers often use a measure tension/length to keep track of this. We ended up jumping up one gauge from Ken's 'normal' set: I just found the number and we set it up with a 16-57 set, and he has since upped that by one gauge.

The heavier gauge has two outcomes in terms of string physics: higher impedance, and higher anharmonicity. Impedance is just a measure of how hard it is to push the string at a given frequency, or, alternatively, of how hard the string can push on the bridge. As yuo go to thicker strings with higher tension (both of which add to the impedance) you need to think about using greater top stiffness and bridge mass irrespective of the tension you're trying to handle, in order to preserve the timbre and sustain.

Thicker strings tend to be stiffer, and the stiffness shifts the pitches of the partials progressivly higher as you go up: that's 'anharmonicity'. It's the reason for those double-wrapped bass strings: they're more flexible when at pitch, and have a truer harmonic series. The down side is quality control: it's really difficult to keep the mass distribution even, and that throws the harmonics off again, so there's a balancing act. Sounds familiar.

I agree wholeheartedly with David on the low string's tone when a double wound is used .. much rounder than all the other strings. Acoustically its fairly noticeable - I almost prefer the sound of my baritones with guitar heavy gauge (14-59) on it, more even top to bottom, but alas, A-A doesnt work well at all, the strings are jsut getting too floppy (on a 28.5 scale). On top of that, even a jumbo body doesnt suport thr low A frequencies to much volume - its there, but is easily overpowered - it needs to be plugged in.



J - I measure the 2.5 mm compensation to the centre of the 3/16 wide saddle slot(which has a 3mm slant to it), between the D and G strings - this means the high B should essentially be close to no added comp about 1mm into the saddle, and the low B has about 4.5 - 5mm added at the saddles centre.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

[QUOTE=Hesh]Matt Mustapick, who may be a member here and is one of Uncle Bob's customers makes a killer baritone.

check it out:

http://mustapickguitars.com/db/7/index.htm

[/QUOTE]

Funny, the only baritone I've had the chance to play was made by Matt Mustapick - I agree, it was really nice.