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I'm going to be building an acoustic very soon and i wanted to know what kind of neck joint works best for you. I'm leaning towards a bolt on/removable neck but I'm unsure of what sort of joint i want to use.

Andrew-
Welcome to the OLf!

Some folks use 'bolt-on' with the fingerboard glued to the top- so not quickly removable. This is probably one of the simpler options.
What sort of tools do you have available? This can determine your method of choice as well.
I've only built a few (15 or so) guitars, and I've used 'Spanish heel', epoxy butt joint, bolt-on butt joint, bolt-on mortise and tenon, and bolt-on dovetail- all with glued-down fingerboards- so no pattern there!
My next one will probably have a removable, adjustable neck along the lines of what Rick Turner/Dave White and others are doing on some of their guitars.
If you want to do a bolt-on with a bolt-down fingerboard, one of the John Mayes DVDs has quite clear instructions on his method.

Cheers

Welcome to the forum, Andrew.

I use a mortise and tenon bolt on, ala Cumpiano, and glue the fb extension (titebond) to the guitar top. Works well for me. Actually, I just attached one yesterday.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

thanks guys,
I'm going for a completely removable neck so i don't know about gluing the fingerboard extension to the top. John, how did the bolt-on butt joint work out for you, that might be the way for me but it just dosn't seem nearly stable enough. How'd it work out for yours?

andrew

Andrew-
By "acoustic" I am presuming you mean that this guitar will have steel strings.
A glued-on tounge is actually very simple to disassemble with a heat lamp and spatula. Only a little glue is required to start with,as the joint is not doing much to hold the instrument together.It is obviously not as easy to remove as the Taylor system, but is a heck of a lot easier to create, especially in the beginning. My advice would be to keep your early efforts as simple as possible. When you start your factory you can jig-up for the full bolt-on system.

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

Andrew-
re: Bolt-on butt joint
This is the method that a lot of pros are using (I think Tony Karol, Mario Proulx (aka grumpy) and others use this method) so it is certainly stable enough. It's simple and also doesn't require such a thick neck block, since there's no mortise to be cut. I found it a little tricky to 'line up' when I was test-fitting the neck and 'flossing' (sanding the heel to fit). If I were to do this again, I'd use hanger bolts as Mario describes- it sounds like a good system.

I'd second the advice from Jon to go with a glued-down fingerboard- you really only need enough glue to keep it from buzzing (though I usually glue it all the way across) and when the guitar needs a neck reset (hopefully years from now) you can free up the fingerboard fairly easily.
BTW, you can bolt on the neck without gluing down the 'board, for stringing up and setting up the action. So you can get a 'second chance' if there's a problem.

Cheers

John

Fully adjustable tilting bolt-on with fingerboard cantilevered free of the top. Inspired by Stauffer, Martin, Schertzer, Howe-Orme, and Larson Bros...in other words, a very traditional neck joint!

I use a bolt on but joint with the neck glued to a fingerboard extension not the top. I've never found it necessary to bolt this extension down. Two bolts and the neck comes off.

This:



Just fits into this:


Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Colin S]I use a bolt on but joint with the neck glued to a fingerboard extension not the top. I've never found it necessary to bolt this extension down. Two bolts and the neck comes off.



This:







Just fits into this:





Colin[/QUOTE]

i like this form. Isn't this the way most Taylors attach? Also, is the fingerboard extension part of the neck itself or is it just attached to the neck? It looks doable for the kind of tools i have

Yes the extension is a continuation of the neck wood, so the fingerboard glues to the same piece of wood all the way down, avoiding any hump.

These are the neck components.


First the extension is thinned


Then the stacked heel is glued together then glued in place. I have already cut the stacked heel to the correct angle. This has just been bandsawn to a rough outline.

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Yes the extension is a continuation of the neck wood, so the fingerboard glues to the same piece of wood all the way down, avoiding any hump.

These are the neck components.


First the extension is thinned


Then the stacked heel is glued together then glued in place. I have already cut the stacked heel to the correct angle. This neck has just been bandsawn to a rough outline.



Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

So good he posted it twice!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin,
The neck pocket needs an angle routed into it right?

is that a dovetailed joint where the fingerboard extension fits into the routed out part of the top?

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Reguards,

Ken H

Colin,

I really like your technique and would be interested in having a go. But bear with me, because I am wondering about a few things.

1.) What are the dimensions approximately of that heel block? It looks like that foot is a good 3 inches or so? Does it get glued to the back then?

2.) Does the part of the heel block the gets routed away result in a pretty thin "tongue" supporting the top?

3.) I am guessing you eliminate the upper graft/popsicle brace with this design?

Thanks in advance

A few answers.

With a 25' radius and a 1.5deg angle on the heel, the pocket just follows the top.

No the fingerboard extension is just a non-interference fit tenon, a few thou smaller than the pocket.

The top extension on the heel block is about 75mm and comes to just short of the cross brace on the top. The foot is 80mm and is the steel string equivalent of the Spanish heel, so yes it gets sanded with the dish with the back of the rims to the 15' radius and is glued to the back.

The top extension on the heel block is 18mm thick, and that on the fretboard extension is 9mm thick, so when the pocket is routed in the heel block there is still 9mm left under the fretboard extension and 18mm to both sides.

No popsicle brace.

To me the heel block is the heart of the guitar, every major component is joined to it, neck, back, top and sides. It is the first thing I make.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Colin S] A few answers.

With a 25' radius and a 1.5deg angle on the heel, the pocket just follows the top.

No the fingerboard extension is just a non-interference fit tenon, a few thou smaller than the pocket.

The top extension on the heel block is about 75mm and comes to just short of the cross brace on the top. The foot is 80mm and is the steel string equivalent of the Spanish heel, so yes it gets sanded with the dish with the back of the rims to the 15' radius and is glued to the back.

The top extension on the heel block is 18mm thick, and that on the fretboard extension is 9mm thick, so when the pocket is routed in the heel block there is still 9mm left under the fretboard extension and 18mm to both sides.

No popsicle brace.

To me the heel block is the heart of the guitar, every major component is joined to it, neck, back, top and sides. It is the first thing I make.

Colin

[/QUOTE]


Thanks a lot! That helps me greatly.

I gonna be using a bolt on method.

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

Colin,

How do you go about resetting the neck angle. Do you just re-floss the neck mounting surface to bring the angle back in.

I really like your system.

Thanks

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Horton, MI