Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Tue Nov 26, 2024 8:23 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:00 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 993
Location: United States
Wow, I saw this video link on another site and am just speechless! The funniest part is that he waits until the 6 minute point in the video before he realizes that maybe he should put some tape down and protect the top.

Bridge reduction


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:05 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 993
Location: United States
Oh yeah, one more thing--watch the video close right around the 1:42 point. I think I'd want to put that chisel through his throat if that was my guitar. Notice the cracks in the top around where he's working... What a sad demise to a 1966 Ramirez!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:11 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 1064
First name: Heath
Last Name: Blair
City: Visalia
State: California
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
my wife just said, "stop that, thats hurting my feelings!"

_________________
sweat the small stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:59 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:48 am
Posts: 2094
That was more painful than watching bypass surgery. Why for Pete's sake, apply "protective" masking tape 3/4's of the way through the operation?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:00 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:39 am
Posts: 69
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
Unfortunately I can't understand japanese, but for the sake of my sanity, I'm going to assume that their dialogue is going something like this:

"Are you sure this is the esteban?"
"Yes yes"
"It's definately NOT my Ramirez, right?"
"No, of course not, the headstock is only covered so we don't have to have the shame of looking at an Esteban wihle you work"
"You know this looks an awful lot like my treasured 1966 Ramirez, guys"
"No, of course not, would we dare you to butcher your ramirez? Nope, definately an esteban, we err, promise" <<friends snicker off-camera>>

and so on and so forth.

If I wasn't such a cynic, and didn't know that there are people in this world with considerably more money than sense, I could almost believe myself....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:06 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:50 pm
Posts: 2711
Location: Victoria, BC
First name: John
Last Name: Abercrombie
Status: Amateur
It's a bit difficult to figure out what's going on in the video; perhaps a translation from the Japanese would help.
Actually, if you had to remove a bridge which was going to be discarded, this would probably be a reasonable technique.
Also, didn't Ramirez produce a line of 'factory' guitars of middling quality? Perhaps this isn't the travesty we're imagining.
Cheers
John


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:09 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13387
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Perhaps so John.  It just hurt to watch though.........


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:03 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:15 pm
Posts: 2302
Location: Florida

How many beers do you have to drink before you decide to butcher your favorite classical guitar?


as far as a translation, I had envisioned the conversation starting like this:


"Hey yall, watch this..."


then you hear the wife kick in saying " I dont care what you do, but if you make a mess in my livingroom floor, you are going to clean it up. At least put down some newspaper to catch all of the chips"


_________________
Reguards,

Ken H


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:40 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:41 am
Posts: 118
Location: United States
Savages. I hope he cuts his fingers off with that chisel.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:25 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 993
Location: United States
Hey guys, if you watch some of his other videos, you will see he scrapes away everything but the saddle area, and then drills string holes through the top and somehow ties them under the top. I can't imagine the guitar sounding better by removing so much of the bridge. If you didn't know better you would think he's trying to remove the bridge but he's actually doing some type of sick voicing.   


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:34 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:13 am
Posts: 1398
Location: United States
I agree it's a hack job, but there is some logic to it...by lightening the bridge, he's going to get faster response, and that should brighten up the guitar.

But he's also reducing the cross grain stiffness, so the long dipole mode is going to get stronger. Just a guess, but he's probably going to get brighter trebles and less midrange.   

Al, are you out there? Does my logic work here?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:50 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:14 am
Posts: 2590
Location: United States
I see you've all discovered my new "bidness" venture...the offshore headquarters of my new Presnall Guitars Budget-series...cheap Asian labor...that's the ticket....

_________________
http://www.presnallguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:01 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:25 am
Posts: 3788
Location: Russellville, Arkansas
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sLTen6w5zlI&feature=user

Watch this video and you will understand his thinking.

No words needed.

Reflects something I learned from Frank Ford on a Mando Bridge.

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:01 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:13 am
Posts: 1398
Location: United States
That's a fair amount of snap from a Ramirez.   Interesting... I don't think I'd try it with my '86 1a, but it's worth thinking about for a new build...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:05 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:30 pm
Posts: 1041
Location: United States
   At 1:42 I saw that the guy was a complete idiot with little skill using his
hand tools but I watched it through only to see what I'd
expected....nothing of any value accomplished. Actually, I started thinking
he had little to offer in the first few seconds when he chipped off the tie
block and he and and his friends chuckled as the pieces landed on the
top with a clunk but the slip of the chisel at 1:42 locked in my opinion.

   I have a Ramirez Centenario that sounds great. I ordered it in 1979
when it was first announced that they would celebrate their 100th year
with it and received it in 1982 which was the 100th year in business. I
sold it once and bought it back a few years later for a little more than I'd
sold it for just because it had sentimental value that I didn;t realize until
it was gone.

It has great tone and has suffered several of the typical top cracks that
have been repaired as they showed up. I've loaned it to friends over the
years and it is currently in Japan.

    Oh, and don't forget to throw out all of your favorite work benches and
just spread the guitar and all of your tools out on the floor, curl up next
to it and go to town.

   I rarely have anything bad to say about anyone or their work, but I don't
have time or room to lost the things i'd like to say about this guy.
Unfortunately, there will be people who flock to him to have their valuable
guitars destroyed by him in an effort to get more tha they paid for.

"Nuff said....

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:09 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:55 am
Posts: 1392
Location: United States
First name: James
Last Name: Bolan
City: Nashville
State: Tennessee
Country: USA
A new definition for STUPID.HA HA HA
                    James

_________________
James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:08 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:25 pm
Posts: 7202
Location: United States
Wow Kevin, I sure hope that wasn't YOUR Ramirez they were modifying there.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:45 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:38 pm
Posts: 1542
Location: United States
his theory is correct to loose mass. This is a fight we all have when building. I hate to see such a fine guitar getting this treatment but in all fairness to him , the less mass on the top and bridge area the more efficient the energy transfer will be.
   I would have preferred to see a new bridge placed and save the old one. Bridge removal is not that difficult and on such a fine vintage guitar that should have been the choice.
   There are people that do these kind of things and people will flock to them thinking that this is the best thing to do for sound.
Sometimes though it is just best to say why bother.
john hall
blues creek guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:03 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:25 am
Posts: 3788
Location: Russellville, Arkansas
How did he tie on the strings? It's revealed in the second video I posted above. You have to watch fast and even rewind to catch it.


_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:24 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:37 am
Posts: 590
Location: United States
First name: Michael
Last Name: Shaw
City: Phila
State: PA
Zip/Postal Code: 19125
Country: United States
[QUOTE=Bruce Dickey] How did he tie on the strings? It's revealed in the second video I posted above. You have to watch fast and even rewind to catch it.

[/QUOTE]
He drilled holes through the bridge and passed the strings throught the soundhole. remember him using the dremel like tool. There is a second video where he strings up another guitar he butchered.http://youtube.com/watch?v=sLTen6w5zlI&feature=user

_________________
Guitars, guitars and more guitars.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 69 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com