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Installing Binding and Purfling
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10146&t=49008		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ericschaeferguitars [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Installing Binding and Purfling
Author:  Kirt Myers [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing Binding and Purfling
Nice video!

Do you use the same technique for wood bindings/purflings?

Thanks
Author:  ericschaeferguitars [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing Binding and Purfling
Kirt Myers wrote:
Nice video!

Do you use the same technique for wood bindings/purflings?

Thanks


Thanks, Kirt. Yeah, it's pretty much the same. Of course, you have to bend wood bindings and you have to bend them to fit pretty well.
If I notice a bit of a gap while I'm applying the tape, I have to remove all the tape and work the bend a little better. And then there's the binding joint on the back.. I still do the scarf joint there, but I just have to cut it a little more carefully because I can't expect the binding ends to "melt" together like they do with plastic. All in all, it's just a pain, lol. But it's fun! And you can't beat the look of good flamed maple bindings! So its worth it.
Author:  JoeM [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing Binding and Purfling
Great video, thanks for sharing it. The scraper idea alone is awesome.

Do you ever seal the channel itself to keep the CA from wicking into the spruce top?

I used a similar approach on a guitar I'm building, and sealed the channels and adjacent surface areas with a thin coat of shellac before fitting the binding and adding CA...but I don't know if that was necessary or if it might cause problems later.

One more question: you only glued at the spots between the tape, does the CA wick all the way to between the spots where the glue is applied? When I did it I added glue along the entire joint area after removing the tape. (I also didn't us a whip tip, and had a giant mess to clean up, so I won't do it that way again!)
Author:  ericschaeferguitars [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing Binding and Purfling
JoeM wrote:
Great video, thanks for sharing it. The scraper idea alone is awesome.

Do you ever seal the channel itself to keep the CA from wicking into the spruce top?

I used a similar approach on a guitar I'm building, and sealed the channels and adjacent surface areas with a thin coat of shellac before fitting the binding and adding CA...but I don't know if that was necessary or if it might cause problems later.

One more question: you only glued at the spots between the tape, does the CA wick all the way to between the spots where the glue is applied? When I did it I added glue along the entire joint area after removing the tape. (I also didn't us a whip tip, and had a giant mess to clean up, so I won't do it that way again!)


Thanks Joe.

You lose some of the strength of the bond in gluing pastic (or wood) bindings directly to finish (most glues bond really well to wood), which is what you're doing when you wipe finish in the channel. I can't say how much because I don't know. I've never done it. But it sounds like it's holding up for you? If the bindings haven't popped out already, I don't imagine that they will later, but who knows... Maybe slap an extra thick finish on later to hold those things in! lol Another concern for me, and reason why I don't wipe finish in the channel, is just the chance that I will mess up a perfectly good channel and then the bindings won't fit as well.
But all in all, if it works, it works. I avoid it mostly because I don't trust the glue to bond in that way. Oh and also it's not necessary to preventing stain.

And as for your second question: The next time you do this, watch the joint carefully. You can really see the glue travel. Usually about an inch or so in each direction. If you see the glue travel there is no need to hit that spot again. You're just creating a mess. In fact, I'm convinced that I could apply glue in every third or fourth space and still be fine, but I do every space or atleast every other just because I can still do it without creating a mess. But following up the whole channel after removing the tape, I would say is definitely unnecessary, and messy especially without a whip tip or some way to apply droplets. I understand the thought process and the fear though, because I used to do the same thing myself. You can only sand through great mounds of hardened superglue so many times before you find a better way!
Someone convinced me to try CA glue as a pore filler on the entire guitar once. I was new and I didn't yet understand what a nightmare superglue can be, so I, more or less, soaked the thing. It took me a whole week to sand it back. After that experience, I developed a certain respect for superglue lol. It's a great tool if used carefully.
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing Binding and Purfling
A few surprises for me here. First, the idea of using CA to bond ABS plastic -- I wouldn't have expected a very strong bond. While I routinely use CA for wood bindings, I never use plastic binding -- I would have thought it needed a solvent-based cement, so seeing a recommendation for CA was a surprise. Shellac on the other hand should have loads of proteins to bond well with the CA, like wood (and fingers). Personally, I wouldn't risk bringing CA anywhere near an unsealed spruce binding channel -- if you haven't yet seen the dreaded fluorescent green stain, it's just a matter of time.


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Author:  Ruby50 [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing Binding and Purfling
I have done this with great success with plastic binding(tortoise/celluloid). It allows great control in taping everything down first to your liking. I shellacked the channels first and found the wicking goes 4-5 inches either side of the spot you are working. My only problem was that the glue stuck my blue tape down all the way onto the top and the sides and it was a PIA to get off - does the glue get under the S-M tape?

Ed
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing Binding and Purfling
Ruby50 wrote:
I have done this with great success with plastic binding(tortoise/celluloid).

I have no doubt that builders may feel good about the results they get with the CA install method with plastic bindings .. at least initially. The fact is that most plastics have low surface energy that causes problems with many adhesives. The bond strength between regular CA and many plastics is quite low, even if it's enough to keep newly-installed bindings in place. Some CA manufacturers have primers or special additives to overcome this low surface energy problem, but this will not be the case with regular ultra-thin formulations.
Bindings take a lot of abuse during the life of a guitar, and some plastics, even on high-end guitars, are notorious for pulling away with shrinkage stress. I've done enough repairs on plastic bindings that were presumably installed with a solvent adhesive, I hate to think what the future is for these guitars with CA installed plastic.
Then again, I feel plastic binding has no place on a quality instrument, so I don't worry about CA bond failure.


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Author:  rlrhett [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Installing Binding and Purfling
I have had problems with CA and ABS bindings. None have failed per se. But I have had to remove bindings done exactly as Eric did them. It takes the gentlest little tug to free them. After a couple of those experiences, I've abandoned CA for plastic bindings.

Too bad, because dry fitting them and wicking in the glue is a very clean and fast method.


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