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John's 2016 challenge build
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10145&t=47809		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  truckjohn [ Mon May 23, 2016 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  John's 2016 challenge build
Hey all

This is exactly the sort of excuse I need.

I haven't worked out all the details yet - but I am going to do a parlor build. It's most likely going to fall within the price cap - but I plan to donate it.

Let's start with the top. I resawed a split cedar fence post today. The post was $11 at the local box store. I am guessing that I am going to get 2 tops worth out of this - so that's $5.50 for the top.

Back and sides will either be Wandoo eucalyptus or Osage Orange... Both of these and the cedar are new for me. I will get some pix up this evening of both - and you can help me choose.

Here's the fence post before and after. I got about a 25% yield that could perhaps become usable for tops. It will be probably half that again once it's all jointed up and thicknessed. This will be a 4+ piece top. It makes me appreciate just how good the price of commercial tone wood really is.

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Thanks
Author:  truckjohn [ Tue May 24, 2016 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
As promised. Here are the back sets.

#1 Miscellaneous South American hard "iron" wood flavor woods. This stuff is super hard and super dense. It's got to be one of the many flavors of wood lumped into "iron wood". But I have no idea of what it is.

#2 Osage orange - rift to flat but thin - it's at 0.1" now

#3 Osage orange - dead flag sawn

#4 Jarra/Wandoo eucalyptus - dead flat sawn.

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What's your vote to go with some wide grain pinkish cedar?
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue May 24, 2016 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
I like them all for various reasons but I'm thinking #4 might look the best with pinkish cedar. But, it is hard to tell from photos on a computer screen especially so without finish on the boards. In the end, I'm sure whichever you choose will be nice.
Author:  DennisK [ Tue May 24, 2016 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
I like the stripey ironwood. If you keep a sapwood stripe in the center of the soundboard, then go with it. Looks like it's pretty narrow, so good to use on a parlor.

But if you don't want any cedar sapwood, then the thin osage is my next favorite. But is it long enough? The width is enough that you might be able to get a parlor back and ukulele back from it.
Author:  truckjohn [ Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Here's what I am going to pattern this after.
A 1920's Lyon and Healy Lakeside parlor. It's almost identical to a Martin size 1 plantilla. Scale is 24.5".

I just want the modern amenities such as easy playing neck, modern tuners, radiused fretboard, and a bolt on neck.

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Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Nice looking. Are you going with a tail piece? How are you going to brace it? I'm still trying to decide how to lay out my braces.
Author:  truckjohn [ Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
I have recently been enamored with lightly built ladder bracing in small guitars. Contrary to popular opinion - it doesn't seem to give up much of anything on a small guitar when well done. The issue I think is that most of the "good" ones were built pre-great depression.... After this most of the small and medium shops closed up or were sold off. The big factories changed construction to a much heavier, quieter, high volume mass produced product. While not impossible to find, they certainly are not common and so there is not the ample basis for comparison as with something like a Dreadnought.

But - even on an X brace.... When you do the tailpiece - you can use a spruce bridge patch and a smaller/lighter bridge and save a lot of weight for the same stiffness. Done well, a small body guitar like this will be very loud.

All that is a round about way of saying... I haven't decided yet ;)

Thanks
Author:  truckjohn [ Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
So... Let's get this cracking.

Something old.
I built this neck almost 6 years ago when my wife was pregnant with our twins.
There wasn't a whole lot of building in between.... So that will be "something old". It's cherry with a Jatoba head plate veneer on top of maple/walnut veneer strips. It's a scarf joint/stacked heel neck. The cherry was local to me then (we moved 2x since then) from a local sawmill. I think I have $5 in the neck. I will also use the Jatoba for a heel cap.

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The miscellaneous hard South American "Brown wood" was bought in 2009 - and I was told it was "old" before that. So that's also something "old".

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Author:  truckjohn [ Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
This seems like it's going to be a lemons to lemonade or vice versa sort of build.

I jointed up the back. Cut the sides down to width

It's crazy... The back was dead flat until I finally thinned them down then it curled like a potato chip. *Groan*. I can tell it's all the flat sawn sections that are an issue. Hopefully I will be able to do something useful with it and not just scrap it. Probably need to wet or down good and sticker it for a while.

Last night I jointed the top. I decided on a Lutz spruce top instead of cedar. This top was at 0.105" after I cleaned up the saw marks prior to jointing.... So if I can use it - gravy... If not, it's just another scrap top. Another groan there because it's just frustrating when you start off with a top that's plenty thick... But the saw marks just never come out.

Here's the back prior to and during jointing.
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Thanks
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Rats! You are probably still okay though. By the time you brace the back and glue it to the rim a plate that thick will probably stay the right shape. Did you use a thickness sander? Sometimes backs with varying grain directions will move a bit more when thickness sanding. I assume that as they get warmed up moisture is driven out and if there are flat sawn and quarter/rift sawn sections they equilibrate at different rates. I had a fairly funky back after thicknessing but by the time I was gluing the braced plate to the rim all was fine.

I hope the top works out. I am never confident in my ability to glue up the halves flush with really thin plates. I joint and glue them thick then get the saw marks out. If it looks like it might be thin by the time I get them out, I do the outside and rossette before it is perfectly smooth on the back.
Author:  DennisK [ Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
truckjohn wrote:
Last night I jointed the top. I decided on a Lutz spruce top instead of cedar. This top was at 0.105" after I cleaned up the saw marks prior to jointing.... So if I can use it - gravy... If not, it's just another scrap top. Another groan there because it's just frustrating when you start off with a top that's plenty thick... But the saw marks just never come out.

I always do the show-face first for that reason. Make sure it looks perfect, and then thickness from the other side where it's ok to leave a few tool marks. If you're doing ladder bracing with a glued bridge, then .105" may not be thick enough. X bracing, then it probably is, especially if you use a large bridge plate. I have no experience with tailpiece guitars, so no idea there.

Sorry to hear about the back causing trouble. If you can get it thicknessed, it will probably be ok. At least the flatsawn part is toward the outer edge, so most of it will be cut away.
Author:  truckjohn [ Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Here's the jointed up top. It's "white kermodie" Lutz. It feels like good stuff.. Looks like good silking and very little runout. With this 12 1/2" pattern, the thick late wood on the outside edges should more or less be gone.... It's just a little on the thin side. I am going to go with it on this pattern. It's narrow enough where I think it should come out Ok. We shall see.

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Thanks
Author:  J De Rocher [ Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Very nice looking set. I have a set of white kermodie on the shelf but it's not as nice as the set you have. All that silking should look good under the finish.
Author:  truckjohn [ Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Another dilemma... What pattern to use?

I have 4 "parlor size" plantillas that are just about right candidates for this build..... But now I can't decide which way to go.

There's:
L-0 - 19" long and right under 14" wide
Harmony concert - 17.5" long and right under 14" wide
LMI's Martin Size 1 - 19" long and right under 13" wide
Kay concert - 17.5" long and 13" wide.

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There's maybe 1/4" difference in width between this Size 1 and the Kay concert width....

Sorry for the huge thumbnails - apparently Postimage decided to break their entire website in new and creative ways before testing out whether it worked or not.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Huge thumbnails? What about the huge toenails?

I like the L-O shape a lot and plan to build one like that some day. It's not very traditional parlor guitar-like in shape, but it's in the ball park size-wise. I don't care for the one on the upper right. It looks a little bit too much like a small dreadnought to me. Either of the two lower ones is nice in a traditional parlor shape way. Maybe it comes down to how traditional you want go.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Any of them would work but I have to say for a parlor I'm partial to the one on the lower right.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Hey, I have a pair of shoes just like those!

I'm with Steve, I like the lower right. Does the grain in the back plate compliment any of the shapes better than others?
Author:  truckjohn [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Plan B.... Oh, that darned Lazy man attacks again.... ;)

I decided on the Stella Concert size.... Because I already have the bending form and mold made up.... And I like it... 14" across the lower bout, 8.5" waist, 10" upper bout.

This one is going to be a 25" scale, 14 feet body join... That puts the bridge within 1/2" of the 23" student 12 fret model. I am doing this one ladder braced, floating bridge, and a tailpiece.

Here are the plates - rough shaped to 1/2" oversize all the way around.

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Here is the template, mold, and form.
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And here's what the 23" scale concert size Stella clone looks like.
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Author:  truckjohn [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
The general consensus on the forum was that this back and sides is Hormigo. Bending is going without issue.

Here's a shot from last night in the bender. I will do the other side tonight.

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Author:  truckjohn [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Sides are in the mold.

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Author:  truckjohn [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Tail block is being glued in place. I hope to get the head block in tonight.

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Thanks
Author:  truckjohn [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Things are starting to take shape.

This started as a chunk of 8/4 cherry. The piece has a big ole knot in it. So it's not good for much else. Luckily cherry makes great head blocks. Plywood is still my favorite for tail blocks though.

First the head block. Cutting it all to shape.
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Routing out the neck tenon and trussrod slots.
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Viola... Head block.
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And in it goes.
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Thanks for looking.
Author:  truckjohn [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
And the sides are in the mold.

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Here's a size reference..... Yes - 17 1/2" long x 13 3/4" body.... It's quite small....
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Here's what the original Stella guitar body looks like inside a J-45. Yes.. The whole body will fit inside a J-45 body....
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Thanks
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
Looking good. If you ever need a case for it, just buys j-45
Author:  truckjohn [ Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John's 2016 challenge build
You found out my secret.... I build replicas of ancient Russian nesting guitars.
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