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Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=54443		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Bunten [ Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
This is an amazing site! Thanks for letting me in!
I'm looking for advice on a repair. I was recently asked to help clean out an old barn and was told I could keep anything I wanted. I was expecting maybe an old table I could put on my porch or something like that. Instead I found a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass I and a 1964 Gibson Scout (GA17RVT) Amp. How lucky is that for a guitar guy!
Anyway, the bass is in decent shape except somebody drilled a bunch of holes in the top like they were using it for a drill block or something. I'm guessing somebody did some sort of trial & error pickup mounting project. It's easy enough to tell the holes have been there for 50 years or so. I'd like to fill the holes and attempt a spot finish. Can somebody help me with an approach to this? Hopefully I can put up a couple of pictures here with a scale for reference. The holes are around 1/16" diameter with screw threads visible inside. The finish around those holes is damaged in about 1/8th" diameter "rings"... (screwheads maybe?) The inside of the holes are blackish... from dirt I suppose.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Pictures would help.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Drilling out and then plugging with hand made dowels made from wood that is matching in species, color, and grain direction. That last one is the difficult requirement because it means the dowel is cross grain. But that is necessary if you ever have a hope of getting a decent repair. The hole and dowel don't need to be very deep.
Author:  Bunten [ Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Thanks for the replies. I uploaded 2 "files" (pictures) and I could watch the upload process on my screen... but they don't seem to display themselves anywhere. Is there something I missed to display the pictures?
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Use a photo-hosting site like IMGUR.
Author:  Bunten [ Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Ok thank you Chris! Let's try this
https://imgur.com/UmODYaL
https://imgur.com/JGnzrCL
https://imgur.com/8UJMzSz
Author:  Glen H [ Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
I would make some complimentary design out of pick guard material and cover those up.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Oh, I see now. Filling and touching up the finish would be difficult on that instrument. Without a complete refinish in an opaque color, it would still be visible no matter how skilled the repairman. Covering it with a pickguard is a good choice.
Author:  Bunten [ Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Thanks Glenn and thanks again Chris. Yeah I could do a cover up... that's probably the logical way to go. But it's a vintage bass, so I'm going to attempt the repair. There are 14 holes, 7 each side, so grain-end dowels would be a tough way to go and you are right. However, I'm retired so I don't mind putting lots of time into this... but I wanted to ask you guys (pros) about how you would approach it if you had to do it. So 7 holes span about 2 inches x 3/8th inch width-wise. If I used a maple veneer, it would be one patch on each side.. not 7 patches each side. a roll of 1 inch wide veneer might yield 2 patches of that size with a grain pattern that matches fairly close. Can't use a router because it's an archtop, so I would have to cut about a 1/32th inch deep space for a veneer using a razor blade, remove some wood, glue in the veneer, scrape the top of the veneer flush(probably remove 1/32th inch assuming the veneer is 1/16th"), stain it with a sunburst yellow and nitro as a top coat which should bleed in with the existing top coat.
Is that just crazy?
Do you guys have ideas that might be more practical or work better? I figure if I don't do a good job then I can always go the pick guard route. I'm pretty good with precision cuts and fine chisel work. Not so good with finishes... and I have never built a guitar from scratch.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Actually, two oblong inlays of matching wood would be the quickest approach and have the most chance of looking decent, however, be aware that your first 23 inlays will look like dog doo. ;-) So do a few practice inlays in scrap until you can get a perfect fit. A router can be used on an arch top if you make a sled. Also, a dremel in a base could be balanced on the archtop and just hold it steady (or tape a couple of small sleds on two edges of the base to prevent rocking). You only need to route a bit less than the thickness of the veneer or wood you plan to inlay. So if the dremel tips a bit, it shouldn't make that big of a difference.
Author:  Bunten [ Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Hey Barry, thanks for the advice. Yeah I'll do practice runs for sure with or without the motors. Dremel in a base with sleds sounds doable with practice, or I may stick with what I know which is carving tools. I've done inlay on quite a few things by hand. I think it will be less noticeable if I steer away from straight edges... like a very soft 'S' shape something like the center of Chris Pile's logo except softer curves. Whatever, I'm encouraged by your post! Thanks
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Quote:
like a very soft 'S' shape something like the center of Chris Pile's logo except softer curves.


FYI - that is the Studebaker logo.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
It can certainly be done by hand. I think a large part of this is finding a good wood for the patch, that matches the existing body. Any idea what it is?
Author:  joshnothing [ Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Bunten wrote:
Thanks Glenn and thanks again Chris. Yeah I could do a cover up... that's probably the logical way to go. But it's a vintage bass, so I'm going to attempt the repair. There are 14 holes, 7 each side, so grain-end dowels would be a tough way to go and you are right. However, I'm retired so I don't mind putting lots of time into this... but I wanted to ask you guys (pros) about how you would approach it if you had to do it. So 7 holes span about 2 inches x 3/8th inch width-wise. If I used a maple veneer, it would be one patch on each side.. not 7 patches each side. a roll of 1 inch wide veneer might yield 2 patches of that size with a grain pattern that matches fairly close. Can't use a router because it's an archtop, so I would have to cut about a 1/32th inch deep space for a veneer using a razor blade, remove some wood, glue in the veneer, scrape the top of the veneer flush(probably remove 1/32th inch assuming the veneer is 1/16th"), stain it with a sunburst yellow and nitro as a top coat which should bleed in with the existing top coat.
Is that just crazy?
Do you guys have ideas that might be more practical or work better? I figure if I don't do a good job then I can always go the pick guard route. I'm pretty good with precision cuts and fine chisel work. Not so good with finishes... and I have never built a guitar from scratch.


First: great barn find!

The finish work component of the job is more involved than you make it sound and if you haven’t done this type of finish work before you may not achieve an great result first time out. You certainly should consider the possibility that the value of the instrument as a vintage piece could be reduced, rather than improved, by the work you plan to undertake. I say that even having seen your pic of the top with the holes drilled in it.

However, it’s your guitar and if you decide to to go ahead please update the thread so we can follow along.

If It was my bass I’d be thinking about what a jazz bass style chrome ashtray cover looked like over the top of them holes..
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Bondo (channeling Padma...). Dan Earlywine uses it and says so in his excellent StewMac book and he uses it particularly on Fender electrics. Bondo and solid color paint would work. Inlay wood where you have to put any screws.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Once in a great while I disagree with Dan. This is one of those times.

As for Padma....Glad he's gone from the OLF.
Author:  Bunten [ Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
To all - This is exactly why I came to this site. Lots of help, diverse suggestions, ideas, fair warnings and a bit of debate. It's what I had hoped to find here.
Chris! Studebaker Logo! Now I'm gonna have to reconsider the shape. Ha! Just kidding. I think the Avanti came out same year as this bass?

Barry - The wood is plain maple. Not a ton of contrast in the grain patterns.

Joshnothing - ah yes, you are right I did over-simplify my description of the finish work. At a minimum I'll have to do some blending to get the aged yellow right. The top coat is the scary part for me. How do you make something with 'seams' look seamless? I've read a bunch on this, but it's one of those things where in the end, it's a skill I may not possess. Time will tell... which brings me to your next point... is it more valuable as a vintage instrument with no work done... leave the holes there, or vice-versa? I realize that's a trick question because nobody knows (including me) if I can pull off this repair without doing more damage aesthetically... which brings me to your last point; the Fender chrome ashtray cover. Man that is a great thought and makes a ton of sense. I'm going to see if I can get hold of one of those & test the theory. Thanks!

Hesh - I kind of cringed when I saw Bondo... but now I'm curious, so in fairness I'm going to test this out on a piece of scrap maple.

I'll keep you all posted as I slowly move through this project, and thanks again for all your thoughts. When I'm done I'll try to borrow a decent camera to show results
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Bunten wrote:
To all - This is exactly why I came to this site. Lots of help, diverse suggestions, ideas, fair warnings and a bit of debate. It's what I had hoped to find here.
Chris! Studebaker Logo! Now I'm gonna have to reconsider the shape. Ha! Just kidding. I think the Avanti came out same year as this bass?

Barry - The wood is plain maple. Not a ton of contrast in the grain patterns.

Joshnothing - ah yes, you are right I did over-simplify my description of the finish work. At a minimum I'll have to do some blending to get the aged yellow right. The top coat is the scary part for me. How do you make something with 'seams' look seamless? I've read a bunch on this, but it's one of those things where in the end, it's a skill I may not possess. Time will tell... which brings me to your next point... is it more valuable as a vintage instrument with no work done... leave the holes there, or vice-versa? I realize that's a trick question because nobody knows (including me) if I can pull off this repair without doing more damage aesthetically... which brings me to your last point; the Fender chrome ashtray cover. Man that is a great thought and makes a ton of sense. I'm going to see if I can get hold of one of those & test the theory. Thanks!

Hesh - I kind of cringed when I saw Bondo... but now I'm curious, so in fairness I'm going to test this out on a piece of scrap maple.

I'll keep you all posted as I slowly move through this project, and thanks again for all your thoughts. When I'm done I'll try to borrow a decent camera to show results


Check out Dan's book at Stew Mac on guitar finishing and refinishing he shows the use of bondo. Before you do perhaps have the ax checked out by a pro. It would be a shame if there is a good reason why this was in the barn and abandoned and if that reason was something that makes it unplayable until resolved. When we had time we used to do restoration but no longer do, no time. But step one for us was an assessment of the path to returning the thing to it's primary function in life, a tool for a musician and not just a pretty face/guitar.

Any reputable professional Luthier in your area should be able to triage it in ten minutes or less and tell you all you never wanted to know about how the frets were put in sideways, maybe Tadeo Gomez at Fender signed the neck, how weak the output on this pick-ups were, condition of the fret plane, etc.

I would be keen to know what I have from a professional point of view before any further investment in time AND a monetary estimate would be helpful too.
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
One more thing be sure to zero in on the neck, fret plane and if the truss rod works AND is effective in moving the neck. If not, and these did fail...., you have a great deal more work to do to get things functional before considering any cosmetic restoration.
Author:  Bunten [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Hesh - Thanks a ton for your thoughts. All of your points are well taken and spot-on. I already have the stew-mac book you mentioned. I plugged it in and played it a bit. Action is poor with the bridge bottomed out; but the pup worked fine and the pots worked fine after a quick spray with cleaner. I haven't even cleaned this old guy up yet, but I can tell you that it wasn't played much at all. No fret wear.. like zero. There was still tension on the strings. Somebody put flat-wound strings on it at some point and maybe the previous owner always had flats on it. The case was caked with dirt, so I did clean that, but inside the case looked like it was sitting inside a house all this time. (pic) No significant rust on the chrome. The neck is straight more or less.. .005 bow at 5th fret. It's a bolt-on. Other than that I haven't dug into this thing yet, but I don't think the neck is twisted. I plan to take it apart over the weekend. The truss rod screw is buried inside the pocket so no access until I remove the neck. I need to see what those holes look like after I clean it up and check dates on the pup, pots, and pocket end of the neck. Should be date stamped. I'll check the pup with a meter. There are no glue joint splits or cracks on any seams or bindings, no loose or high frets. (I have full compliment of stew-mac set-up tools so I was able to measure fret height etc...). I added a few more pictures so you can see the whole instrument. Bad camera & lighting so colors are off a bit:
https://imgur.com/9MY5pnv
https://imgur.com/6pg10Mr
https://imgur.com/T7M4mhC
https://imgur.com/l51ZGqE
So anyway I did a little simulation of what might happen if I could do a perfect rectangular inlay (pictures).. it is very noticeable to me so I may just trash that idea. The chrome pickup cover idea crashed as well. Not near enough clearance. In fact, interference of almost 1/8th inch. I am leaning more & more towards leaving the holes as is, but I am gonna try the bondo on a scrap piece
Author:  Conor_Searl [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
My 2 cents, guitars have stories. Guitars found in barns especially have stories. Those stories are worth something.

If I put myself in the hypothetical shoes of a person looking at this bass for sale in a music store, my opinion would be the only cosmetic repair that would leave this guitar better off than it is now, would be one that is invisible. In other words I'd rather look at a bunch of nasty old screw holes, than two rectangles of maple veneer even if the color match, and finish was perfect on the repair. But that's just me.

In my limited experience, finish repairs have a tendency to creep, expand, and get away from a person too. But it sounds like you're prepared to wade through the possibilities slowly and see where they take you.
Author:  Bunten [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Hello Conor, thanks for joining in! I'm older than the guitar so I totally get the historical reference and the stories behind things like "why I put 14 screw holes in a perfectly good bass" Fender came out with a 2 pickup version of this bass shortly after the Coronado Bass 1 hit the market. No surprise, they named it the Bass II. ha! So very few of this version were made. Back in the 60s the general attitude was 'more is better'... so I'll make up a story for you. Chapter I: The guy was high as a kite and had a drill. The end. [headinwall] ;)
Sorry... wish I did know the story behind this
Author:  Conor_Searl [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Bunten wrote:
Hello Conor, thanks for joining in! I'm older than the guitar so I totally get the historical reference and the stories behind things like "why I put 14 screw holes in a perfectly good bass" Fender came out with a 2 pickup version of this bass shortly after the Coronado Bass 1 hit the market. No surprise, they named it the Bass II. ha! So very few of this version were made. Back in the 60s the general attitude was 'more is better'... so I'll make up a story for you. Chapter I: The guy was high as a kite and had a drill. The end. [headinwall] ;)
Sorry... wish I did know the story behind this


Haha, yeah you're probably right. I wonder if they thought it would be more comfortable if those thumb/finger rests were in a different place?
Author:  Bunten [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Maybe? but unlikely. Those finger/thumb rests use big weight-bearing screws... #8 I think. These holes were about #2 size... like a humbucker pickup ring size. They sure look like multiple pickups were changed out back there, but there is no wire hole for connection, so the mystery continues...
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please help with a 1963 Fender Coronado Bass 1
Bunten wrote:
Hesh - Thanks a ton for your thoughts. All of your points are well taken and spot-on. I already have the stew-mac book you mentioned. I plugged it in and played it a bit. Action is poor with the bridge bottomed out; but the pup worked fine and the pots worked fine after a quick spray with cleaner. I haven't even cleaned this old guy up yet, but I can tell you that it wasn't played much at all. No fret wear.. like zero. There was still tension on the strings. Somebody put flat-wound strings on it at some point and maybe the previous owner always had flats on it. The case was caked with dirt, so I did clean that, but inside the case looked like it was sitting inside a house all this time. (pic) No significant rust on the chrome. The neck is straight more or less.. .005 bow at 5th fret. It's a bolt-on. Other than that I haven't dug into this thing yet, but I don't think the neck is twisted. I plan to take it apart over the weekend. The truss rod screw is buried inside the pocket so no access until I remove the neck. I need to see what those holes look like after I clean it up and check dates on the pup, pots, and pocket end of the neck. Should be date stamped. I'll check the pup with a meter. There are no glue joint splits or cracks on any seams or bindings, no loose or high frets. (I have full compliment of stew-mac set-up tools so I was able to measure fret height etc...). I added a few more pictures so you can see the whole instrument. Bad camera & lighting so colors are off a bit:
https://imgur.com/9MY5pnv
https://imgur.com/6pg10Mr
https://imgur.com/T7M4mhC
https://imgur.com/l51ZGqE
So anyway I did a little simulation of what might happen if I could do a perfect rectangular inlay (pictures).. it is very noticeable to me so I may just trash that idea. The chrome pickup cover idea crashed as well. Not near enough clearance. In fact, interference of almost 1/8th inch. I am leaning more & more towards leaving the holes as is, but I am gonna try the bondo on a scrap piece


DB you are saying all the right things and your post stands out from the thousands that I have read here of new folks with a recent find that they want to restore. Checking dates on pots and checking pups with multimeters are what we do and we operate a nationally known Lutherie repair shop. Good going. If I can help you and you want to private message me here feel free I am not here often these days. Good luck and have fun man.
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