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Thinning a headstock
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=51570		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Conor_Searl [ Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Thinning a headstock
I have a guitar student who has an Epiphone SG that hes trying to customize a little (well a lot), and I've offered to help him figure some things out.

He bought some very specific Kluson tuners, but it turns out an Epiphone head stock is about 2.5-3 mm thicker than a Gibson head stock, and the Kluson post is about 2.5mm shorter than the Grovers that were on there. So the string would enter the post right at the face plate of the guitar. He really wants to make these tuners work as they have the look hes going for, are we crazy to bother trying to thin the face of the head stock down? Two thoughts, perhaps the removal of 3 mm of material from the face plate will really just be the poly finish and a bit of the face plate and so no big deal. Or will this procedure weaken the head stock? So we should really take off enough material to allow for a new face plate and the appropriate amount of clearance for the tuning pegs. Also If we thin the head stock it will leave the nut on a ledge and not pinched between the fret board and face plate any more, I don't see this being a problem.

If planing the face-plate is a viable solution, I have a second question that ties into a couple other personal jobs I have kicking around. I've got two broken head stocks that I want to replace the face plates on. I bought Stew-Mac's safe-t planer and I can see how that should work for adding a back strap to the back of head stocks, but for the face plate I feel like the head stock angle will prevent me feeding the head stock into the planer. Any suggestions on how to make that work? Or if its a tool that's just not designed for that, is there another option?
Author:  B. Howard [ Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinning a headstock
Without pulling the FB I don't think anything but hand tools will work... I would opt to shave it of the back of the head myself otherwise you will plow away most of the landing for the nut....

Seems like an awful lot of trouble to swap tuners. What is so special about thee way they look? Bushings and buttons can swap around really easy compared to shaving down a headstock.
Author:  Freeman [ Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinning a headstock
The Safe-T-Planer is your friend. It will be awkward as hell trying to hold the guitar and feed it but it does work. Here I am planing the back of a head to receive a reinforcement back strap - I've got the the top side of the head sitting on a piece of UHMW plastic so I can slide it under the planer

Attachment:
IMG_3448.JPG


Having the head plate sitting on something takes care of the end of the fretboard. You will have to make the transition to the neck with hand tools. Also, of course, you are further weakening an already weak area.
Author:  Freeman [ Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinning a headstock
As far as replacing the head plate - as you can see from the picture if the neck were turned over and sitting on that block you could easily use the Safe-T-Planer. Again, its awkward holding the body but that is exactly what I'm doing in the picture. You'll have to clean up the edge by the f/b with a chisel. However you could also just knock it off with a sharp plane and chisel.
Author:  Conor_Searl [ Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinning a headstock
B. Howard wrote:
Without pulling the FB I don't think anything but hand tools will work... I would opt to shave it of the back of the head myself otherwise you will plow away most of the landing for the nut....

Seems like an awful lot of trouble to swap tuners. What is so special about thee way they look? Bushings and buttons can swap around really easy compared to shaving down a headstock.


Haha, yes way too much work. And its not something I'd ever suggest or do for a customer, however it is the kind of thing I'd like to know how to do for my own sake.

These tuners are double ring klusons, I guess they were what Gibson used when they first made SG's or something? I don't think there's really any way to pull the green plastic knobs off these tuners and put them on something else.

I like your suggestion about taking the material off the back instead. Would it be best to try and leave the headstock to neck transition alone and then taper the headstock from the transition, leaving as much material as possible at the joint, or should I try and keep the back parallel of the headstock parallel to the front and then smooth out the transition? It seems to me that if I taper it, it might end up messing with the tuning keys as they'll be going through the holes at an angle, however keeping the back parallel could potentially weaken the neck joint as I'll be taking material off of there.

Perhaps a third option of telling him it can't be done despite what he's seen on youtube is my best way forward. ;)
Author:  Freeman [ Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinning a headstock
Conor_Searl wrote:
Perhaps a third option of telling him it can't be done despite what he's seen on youtube is my best way forward. ;)


Have him sign a disclaimer that says this will weaken the headstock and you cannot guarantee the work, that the finish will be damaged and you cannot repair it, and quote a price that makes it unattractive (but worth your while if he wants to go ahead with it).
Author:  B. Howard [ Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinning a headstock
These Schaller machines are available with double ring buttons and you can spec post length....
https://schaller.info/en/machine-heads/234/g-series-deluxe-keystone?number=10140123.17.36&c=53

Most Gibson head stocks taper in thickness a bit from the factory. A typical LP head is .630"at the bottom hyoid and .575" at the crest.
Author:  phavriluk [ Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinning a headstock
I've been well served when confronting a task I haven't done before to take my original estimates of time/complexity/expense and double them before starting work, and doubling them again once work starts. This sounds to me like a project well positioned to run away from control and not achieve the imagined results. And perhaps with 'sub-optimal' results when done.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinning a headstock
StewMac had a recent video with swapping of double-ring and single-ring Kluson buttons... You can search for it.
Author:  Conor_Searl [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinning a headstock
B. Howard wrote:
These Schaller machines are available with double ring buttons and you can spec post length....
https://schaller.info/en/machine-heads/234/g-series-deluxe-keystone?number=10140123.17.36&c=53

Most Gibson head stocks taper in thickness a bit from the factory. A typical LP head is .630"at the bottom hyoid and .575" at the crest.



Brian Howard for the win. Finding tuning pegs that fit is way more sensible than shaving the head stock down. Now I just need to return these other tuners...
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