Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - How necessary is a neck jig?

What work are you intending to do with this neck jig before I answer?

Does everyone have one?
Can you kinda get away with not having one?
I'd rather have one than not, you can see how it would make a difference but would you, for example, not take your guitar in for repair if the place didn't have one?

What Frank said and there are work arounds for not using a neck jig. I'll add that they take up a LOT of space..., rarely get used AND with finite resources there is always something else in a busy commercial shop that will be more important in providing excellent quality work.

Fall-away, relief, different levels of relief are all easy to determine (and create...) with other, easy methods such as using bluing and taking a machinists approach to fret work.

Learning to make all adjustments in the playing position just like with a neck jig is a good idea too. That's what we do.

Quote:

What's bluing?

I know it as a tool makers method of checking for high or low spots by using a blue dye (Dykem or Prussian Blue).... in this case, on the frets. You work the metal, and see the low spots (where the blue is), and the high spots (where the metal shows). You want it so everything is flat....

JF Dan did go to town on this one, eh..... Must have been his NASA years....

I heard a rumor that the producers of 50 shades of grey were evaluating a neck jig....

Hesh wrote:

JF Dan did go to town on this one, eh..... Must have been his NASA years....

I heard a rumor that the producers of 50 shades of grey were evaluating a neck jig....

I'm running it by the wife to have it as a center piece in our living room...wish me luck.

I've still got my old Greg Lemond Coors Light bike hanging on a hook in my shed, Campy Record 8-speed. I need to polish her up and take her for a ride once it warms up a bit. Do you ever get out and race anymore? I still get out and race some of the local Masters events, once or twice a year. I swear there is some connection between bike racing and building guitars, there are a few of us doing it anyway. Fun stuff.

Author:	FL6 [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:	How necessary is a neck jig?
Does everyone have one? Can you kinda get away with not having one? I'd rather have one than not, you can see how it would make a difference but would you, for example, not take your guitar in for repair if the place didn't have one?

Author:	Chris Pile [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
What work are you intending to do with this neck jig before I answer?

Author:	Hesh [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
Not..... I never had or used one when I was building and you don't have to have one to do repairs either.

Author:	FL6 [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
Chris Pile wrote: What work are you intending to do with this neck jig before I answer? For fret work. http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Ty ... ation.html

Author:	Chris Pile [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
OK - I have the early version of this on my StewMac bench.... it's from the late 80's... I guess it's a true vintage piece according to today's logic. Yes, I use it on levels and refrets when the neck exhibits a lot of client problems. No - I don't use it on every job. It can be misused, but when properly set up it works like a charm. But it's not absolutely necessary.

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Author:	Hesh [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
Oh that neck jig and not the neck jig like the Woolson Neck jig. We have one, it's still in the old shop where it's been for six years and being used to hang aprons on...... They do make a good learning tool if you have an instructor to guide you though topics such as the impact that gravity has on some necks. But to build or repair it's not something that I would even build or buy again. You can simulate situations but learning how to do fret work and what to expect also gets you thinking about what's happening with other ways to verify what the jig does.

Author:	Ken Jones [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
I got by without one for many years, but when I decided to take my repair business to the next level, it was one of my first shop additions. I can say it has truly made a difference, and enables us to do some pretty snazzy saves like planing an upbowed neck flat, sanding relief into frets, etc. This capability is critical when working with non-truss rod-equipped vintage instruments. As far as my customers go, most have no idea what it is or what it's for -- they're just happy with the end result. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	david farmer [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
Epic fret and neck jig discussion. http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44767&hilit=neck+jig

Author:	Frank Ford [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
FL6 wrote: Does everyone have one? Can you kinda get away with not having one? I'd rather have one than not, you can see how it would make a difference but would you, for example, not take your guitar in for repair if the place didn't have one? I've managed to stumble along for 47 years nonstop without a neck jig. I wouldn't judge a builder or repairer on the basis of the equipment IN the shop, but more on the work that comes OUT of the shop. . .

Author:	Hesh [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
What Frank said and there are work arounds for not using a neck jig. I'll add that they take up a LOT of space..., rarely get used AND with finite resources there is always something else in a busy commercial shop that will be more important in providing excellent quality work. Fall-away, relief, different levels of relief are all easy to determine (and create...) with other, easy methods such as using bluing and taking a machinists approach to fret work. Learning to make all adjustments in the playing position just like with a neck jig is a good idea too. That's what we do.

Author:	jfmckenna [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
IMHO that one wins the overkill of the year award That is to say for me personally. Going on 25 years doing setups and fret jobs and so on and I too have never found in necessary. In all fairness I never used one either and there certainly have been other tools and or jigs that I kicked myself in the arse for not getting a lot earlier. But still...

Author:	FL6 [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
Hesh wrote: What Frank said and there are work arounds for not using a neck jig. I'll add that they take up a LOT of space..., rarely get used AND with finite resources there is always something else in a busy commercial shop that will be more important in providing excellent quality work. Fall-away, relief, different levels of relief are all easy to determine (and create...) with other, easy methods such as using bluing and taking a machinists approach to fret work. Learning to make all adjustments in the playing position just like with a neck jig is a good idea too. That's what we do. What's bluing?

Author:	Chris Pile [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
Quote: What's bluing? I know it as a tool makers method of checking for high or low spots by using a blue dye (Dykem or Prussian Blue).... in this case, on the frets. You work the metal, and see the low spots (where the blue is), and the high spots (where the metal shows). You want it so everything is flat....

Author:	FL6 [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
Chris Pile wrote: Quote: What's bluing? I know it as a tool makers method of checking for high or low spots by using a blue dye (Dykem or Prussian Blue).... in this case, on the frets. You work the metal, and see the low spots (where the blue is), and the high spots (where the metal shows). You want it so everything is flat.... Ok, so the magic marker thing. I suppose the same as marking anything to see if you're sanding even.

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Author:	Chris Pile [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
You could ask Hesh what he meant.... There may be multiple answers.

Author:	Hesh [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
Chris is correct as usual, we use magic marker ink to see where we are hitting and not hitting with the leveling beams. But... there is FAR more to great fret work. BTW the leveling beams are calibrated on a calibrated surface plate. Having a machinists experience and view as to very tight tolerances is super helpful. Chris has this, Dave Collins too and Frank does as well. There is also what I call the "touch" and the guys who have taken our classes know about this, pushing back on a head stock lightly with a fulcrum in the right spot on the neck to induce relieve. Pulling forward gently for eliminate relief, etc. The proof is in the results as Frank said. If you can reliably dress frets be they new or old so that a light touch player can have action of 2.5/64th" and 3.5/64th" measured at the 12th with no buzz or rattle anywhere on the neck you don't need no stinkin neck jig. If you can't do this, reliably and repeatably a neck jig can show you where your errors are but won't tell you what you are doing wrong. That's what Dave is for:) That's where instruction is helpful and in this case less expensive than a new place to hang your shop aprons as these jigs take up a lot of space. Is it a useful tool? Sure. Is it required? Hell no. Is it a priority over other important things to have in the shop OR know how to do professionally? Hell no IMHO and IME. I'd much rather have a decent mill before a neck jig. Bluing is simply something to mark with, ink in this case and the ink thickness might be .0005 or less. With manual methods that level of precision over the span of say the 1st through the 12th is very possible without a neck jig. JF Dan did go to town on this one, eh..... Must have been his NASA years.... I heard a rumor that the producers of 50 shades of grey were evaluating a neck jig....

Author:	FL6 [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
Hesh wrote: JF Dan did go to town on this one, eh..... Must have been his NASA years.... I heard a rumor that the producers of 50 shades of grey were evaluating a neck jig.... I'm running it by the wife to have it as a center piece in our living room...wish me luck.

Author:	Hesh [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
FL6 wrote: Hesh wrote: JF Dan did go to town on this one, eh..... Must have been his NASA years.... I heard a rumor that the producers of 50 shades of grey were evaluating a neck jig.... I'm running it by the wife to have it as a center piece in our living room...wish me luck. Be careful Paul some of these OLFers have been known to ask folks to post pics.....

Author:	jfmckenna [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
david farmer wrote: Epic fret and neck jig discussion. http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44767&hilit=neck+jig Well now how cool is that? I've still got my old Greg Lemond Coors Light bike hanging on a hook in my shed, Campy Record 8-speed. I need to polish her up and take her for a ride once it warms up a bit. Do you ever get out and race anymore? I still get out and race some of the local Masters events, once or twice a year. I swear there is some connection between bike racing and building guitars, there are a few of us doing it anyway. Fun stuff.

Author:	david farmer [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
jfmckenna wrote: I've still got my old Greg Lemond Coors Light bike hanging on a hook in my shed, Campy Record 8-speed. I need to polish her up and take her for a ride once it warms up a bit. Do you ever get out and race anymore? I still get out and race some of the local Masters events, once or twice a year. I swear there is some connection between bike racing and building guitars, there are a few of us doing it anyway. Fun stuff. In my case, the connection is the flaw of only being drawn to things difficult. No more racing. No more roads for that matter. I Still love to ride as much as I did in kindergarten. I just do it here now: Attachment: IMG_0656 - Copy.JPG

Author:	jfmckenna [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How necessary is a neck jig?
I hear ya. I've played pretty much all the ball sports in high school and so on but it wasn't till i took up bike racing at about age 30 that I realized this is by far the very hardest sport there is. I don't think most people get that but it's true. Anyway that's beautiful. I need to get out there and ride some time. I've taken a liking to mountain biking myself in the last few years. There is something serene and peaceful about it even though it's an ass-kicking sport too... No cars, that's one good thing If you ever come to Virginia and what to ride some trails be sure to look me up!