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What do you make of this repair job?
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=48328		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  konkapotrock [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  What do you make of this repair job?
Hi All,

I found a Gibson SG Special Faded from 2008 that appears to be in excellent condition other than the fact that it looks like the heal has been repaired. The strange thing about it is that the area where it has been repaired is both kinda amateurish looking and yet somehow pretty consistent with the finish of the rest of the neck and neck joint. It looks like the cracks have perhaps been filled with grain filler? (dark black patches) and there seems to be dark caked patches of the same material around the heal joint and along the neck. There looks like there is a patch of router tear along the neck with the same caked up black substance (again, grain filler?). There are tool marks along the side of the fingerboard and a black tool mark on the neck side of the joint. I guess I am trying to eliminate the possibility that it came out of the factory like this. The pictures I've seen of neck/heal repairs don't seem to be finished like this. Any thoughts?
Author:  Freeman [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Have you pulled the neck pup out to see what is going on there? Remember that SG's have fairly short tenons compare to LP's (and some have the infamous "short tenon" that were prone to failure).
Author:  konkapotrock [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
No. I didn't think of removing the pickup. But I did think that removing the pickguard might give me a better view of whats going on. I guess the pickups are mounted to the pickguard anyway. Maybe I will take a look at the pickup cavity tonight.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Looks like a fairly large chunk of the body by the neck joint got chipped out. Doesn't look factory.
Author:  Haans [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
That's got to be a hack refinish job. You can see the non-scraped F/B edge, frets, no filler. Is the body filled?
Author:  konkapotrock [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Haans wrote:
Is the body filled?


Do you mean the cracks in the heal? If so it does look like they are filled with the black resin like material, which I have been assuming is wood filler. I apologize, I am very much a novice in this area. If however you are asking whether the entire body of the guitar has been properly filled it looks totally normal. Here's another picture of the fretboard issues which I didn't initially think had anything to do with the possible heal repair.
Author:  Freeman [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
konkapotrock wrote:
No. I didn't think of removing the pickup. But I did think that removing the pickguard might give me a better view of whats going on. I guess the pickups are mounted to the pickguard anyway. Maybe I will take a look at the pickup cavity tonight.


If those are humbuckers the pups are mounted to rings which mount to the top. If they are P90's or something similar they are probably mounted to the pickguard with a bracket. Anyway, take the neck pickup out and see what you've got in the cavity. Here is one picture that shows the difference between long and short tenons - I've heard that the short ones can fail pretty easily

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topi ... ort-tenon/

I also had a case where when the neck started loosening on this cheap SG looking thing they just dumped a bunch of epoxy in the cavity.

Image

I think you'll know a lot more when you look in yours
Author:  konkapotrock [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
I'm pretty sure after some brief internet research that these models have short tenons.
Author:  Haans [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
You have open pores on the neck back and heel. The grain is not filled, looks like a terrible sanding job leaving splotches of the old color dark and into the end grain. I really wouldn't think that this would be something that Gilson would do and let out of the factory. As I said, looks like a very bad piece of work by a rank amateur.
Then again, I don't know much about solid body 'lectrics...
Author:  konkapotrock [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Haans wrote:
You have open pores on the neck back and heel. The grain is not filled, looks like a terrible sanding job leaving splotches of the old color dark and into the end grain. I really wouldn't think that this would be something that Gilson would do and let out of the factory. As I said, looks like a very bad piece of work by a rank amateur.
Then again, I don't know much about solid body 'lectrics...


Ah, I see. Some of this is probably part of the aesthetic of this budget Gibson series. The "Worn" or "Faded" series guitars seem to either have a lot of wide porous grain or conversely the dark set in smudges. Here are some photos of other faded series guitars off of google. The brown example, an advertising photo I think, shows the presence of the rough blackened areas that are reminiscent to some of the areas on the heal of my guitar.
Author:  Haans [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Wow, Gilson has sunk to a new low...go Henry!
Anything for a buck.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Quote:
Wow, Gibson has sunk to a new low..


The trend in many guitars right now is flat finishes, some without grain filling. The prevailing thought of the guitar buying public right now is that thick shiny finishes inhibit the tone of the guitar (they do to a degree). Also, flat finishes are in fashion EVERYWHERE - new cars, etc. Haven't you noticed?

And since a smart business guy gives the people what they want.... and it reduces the cost of guitar production, what's the problem? It makes sense. Time is money, folks - and finishing is the longest operation of producing a guitar. Reduced time, result in more profit. I don't blame anyone for doing it. I am, too.

Seagull has been doing flat finishes since the late 80's. They were the trend setters. We are just catching on to the wisdom of flat finishes in the last 5 years. Get on the wagon.

By the way - I didn't see anything wrong with the repair on the SG. The guy made his repair match the factory finish. Good for him.
Author:  Haans [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Hardly worth a reply...
Just don't see what we ever could have in common.
Author:  philosofriend [ Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Whether it was fixed in the factory or not, it would be impossible to fix that heel without causing fret issues.
Author:  konkapotrock [ Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
philosofriend wrote:
Whether it was fixed in the factory or not, it would be impossible to fix that heel without causing fret issues.


Could you expound on that?
Author:  Chris Pile [ Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Quote:
Whether it was fixed in the factory or not, it would be impossible to fix that heel without causing fret issues.


Quote:
Could you expound on that?


^^^^^Yeah, what he said.^^^^^
Because I could fix it without fret issues.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Chris Pile wrote:
Quote:
Whether it was fixed in the factory or not, it would be impossible to fix that heel without causing fret issues.


Quote:
Could you expound on that?


^^^^^Yeah, what he said.^^^^^
Because I could fix it without fret issues.


Im in the " Explain Please " camp as well idunno
Author:  SG Lou [ Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
This is the style neck joint on newer SG's, Similar to LP's but shorter tenons.

The tenon is visible in the pickup route but the entire pickguard would have to be removed.
Author:  William Bustard [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Just looks like the SG took a smash and broke the neck loose-with some breakage too
and someone glued it back together
with epoxy - the epoxy might have reacted with the finish repair turning it black-
might have just rubbed it with a bit of poly or something
I think the finish on those faded models do not always have much if any grain filler
-sometimes even splotchy and only partially filling here and there just to achieve a balanced look for the color-
maybe more of a thick sanding sealer
Author:  dradlin [ Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you make of this repair job?
Haans wrote:
As I said, looks like a very bad piece of work by a rank amateur.


That's a rush to judgement, as we don't know the backstory to the repair.

The degree to which a customer desires or can afford to take a repair is a common consideration. So could have been a limited budget job with function prioritized above aesthetic.

Could have been that the guitar value didn't justify a fully restorative repair.

Could have been a kid who was proud to get the repair that far.

Even professionals started somewhere, and I suspect that most or all would later in their career like a do-over on a past repair.

My question: what would you do to clean it up?
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