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Basket Case of an LP Repair
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=47724		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  DanKirkland [ Mon May 02, 2016 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Basket Case of an LP Repair
I know I post alot of weird stuff I just can't help what I come across.

A friend of mine sent me the following pictures. It apparently had been sitting below an AC unit and had had a steady stream of condensation being applied for quite a long time. The original case is completely toast.

I have offered to do the guitar for him. I've yet to hold the guitar in my hand so there's most likely a gremlin hiding in there somewhere. He told me it was an early 70s-ish LP (he's not 100% sure) I don't know the actual year is, might be newer or older than that.

I'm assuming at the minimum the top will need to be refinished and most of the hardware replaced, not sure about the pickups, the tuners look surprisingly clean. The back and sides look decent to me, the headstock overlay is another thing entirely.

For the refinish I was thinking about just using the aerosol stuff but upon discussing it with him he prefers thinner finishes such as satin or even shellac. The original color was black so it wouldn't be difficult to tint shellac to the right color. Anyone ever done a french polish finish on an LP?

Anyway, just wanted to share, might do a little repair journal on it if/when he gets it to me.

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Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue May 03, 2016 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
It can be saved.
I restored a Gretsch archtop back in the 70's that was left under a leaky pipe in the basement for about the year. The top and back separated from the ribs, the neck was loose, the binding disintegrated, and the frets fell out. Took me a couple years during slack times, but today it's still sweet playing and sounding gorgeous.
Go for it!
Author:  B. Howard [ Tue May 03, 2016 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
Not an early 70's or it would be a pancake body. Without a serial number stamped into the headstock would mean it was made prior to 1961....which could make this a very valuable guitar and very worthy of proper restoration and not just a shellac finish type job. A bit more research would need done including a hands on inspection and disassembly to be sure what it actually is.
Author:  Don Williams [ Tue May 03, 2016 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
There is a lot about this that doesn't look right to me. The recurve in the top, the shape of the neck heel, the cutaway horn shape, the case, the pickups, the headstock shape, lack of trapezoid inlays on fretboard, etc. This looks more like a knock-off than an actual Gibson.
Author:  DanKirkland [ Tue May 03, 2016 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
B. Howard wrote:
Not an early 70's or it would be a pancake body. Without a serial number stamped into the headstock would mean it was made prior to 1961....which could make this a very valuable guitar and very worthy of proper restoration and not just a shellac finish type job. A bit more research would need done including a hands on inspection and disassembly to be sure what it actually is.


The non-pancake thing is a bit odd. What makes me think it's not a pre-61 is the pickups and the headstock finish on the back. His parents bought it new for him in the mid 70s according to what he's telling me.

He could be wrong. But one way or another it'll be made right for him. Even if it is fake it has alot of sentimental value for him

EDIT: I asked him to send some pictures of underneath the electronics cover, we'll see what comes of it
Author:  DrewB [ Tue May 03, 2016 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
Don Williams wrote:
There is a lot about this that doesn't look right to me. The recurve in the top, the shape of the neck heel, the cutaway horn shape, the case, the pickups, the headstock shape, lack of trapezoid inlays on fretboard, etc. This looks more like a knock-off than an actual Gibson.


Agreed. The bridge is not one that Gibson used, and that back sure doesn't look like mahogany. Studio Standards from the '80s had dot inlays, but I have little doubt this is not a Gibson.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Tue May 03, 2016 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
Awesome relic job by the air conditioner!!!!
Author:  DanKirkland [ Tue May 03, 2016 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
If you look very closely at the first pic, where the nut usually sits. You can easily see it's not a real Gibson.
Author:  B. Howard [ Wed May 04, 2016 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
DanKirkland wrote:
If you look very closely at the first pic, where the nut usually sits. You can easily see it's not a real Gibson.



Yep, just caught the 3 screw truss cover......not a Gibby,
Author:  DanKirkland [ Wed May 04, 2016 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
So now that it's established as a fake. I think that a Shellac finish would be fine considering it has no real historical value and it won't make much of a difference either way.

As soon as I get my hands on the guitar I'll update this thread and use it to keep track of my progress.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed May 04, 2016 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
We'll be watching with interest.
Author:  Hesh [ Wed May 04, 2016 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
I'll bet those strings can be saved....;)

One question though: Why? I mean..... I mean I understand that it's a project guitar and I also understand that all of us here like working on guitars and I also understand that anything.... can be brought back to life with enough effort, expense and time but..... why?

What I see is thousands of dollars of effort or opportunity costs in billable hours for something that will have little more value then what it likely is an imported fake copy of a Les Paul.

It's likely the tail piece, bridge, even the pups and certainly the pots, switch and wiring will all have to be replaced. That adds up not to mention what's the condition of the neck is it warped all to hell? This thing looks like a money pit and time suck to me. Maybe consider taking it out back and shooting it - at least that might be fun for a while...:) Throwing it into a bon fire while plugged into a half stack could give off some killer tone for a few minutes.... too...:) Visions of Jimi Hendrix with the lighter fluid here too...

Kidding with ya of course. Hat's off for wanting to make her right again.
Author:  DanKirkland [ Wed May 04, 2016 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
Hesh wrote:
I'll bet those strings can be saved....;)

One question though: Why? I mean..... I mean I understand that it's a project guitar and I also understand that all of us here like working on guitars and I also understand that anything.... can be brought back to life with enough effort, expense and time but..... why?

What I see is thousands of dollars of effort or opportunity costs in billable hours for something that will have little more value then what it likely is an imported fake copy of a Les Paul.

It's likely the tail piece, bridge, even the pups and certainly the pots, switch and wiring will all have to be replaced. That adds up not to mention what's the condition of the neck is it warped all to hell? This thing looks like a money pit and time suck to me. Maybe consider taking it out back and shooting it - at least that might be fun for a while...:) Throwing it into a bon fire while plugged into a half stack could give off some killer tone for a few minutes.... too...:) Visions of Jimi Hendrix with the lighter fluid here too...

Kidding with ya of course. Hat's off for wanting to make her right again.


Hesh, I'll do my best to save the strings ;)

Honestly for him it has enormous sentimental value. He really doesn't play it he just wants it to look good. It was his very first guitar that he ever had and his parents purchased it for him (at great expense as they were very poor) for his 11th birthday.

I have considered the cost, time, effort, and hair pulling that might be involved. But he's a good friend and I didn't want him to have to throw it away.
Author:  Don Williams [ Wed May 04, 2016 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
Ah... sentimental value. Sometimes, it's worth the time and effort for that. It may never be a great guitar, but to have it restored to a condition where it simply reminds him of the love and sacrifice of his parents, then it is worth it. Having just lost my dad a few weeks ago, I understand this all too well.
Author:  Hesh [ Wed May 04, 2016 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
I understand Dan and wanted to relate a little story to you.

One of our clients who was also in the biz back in the day operating a banjo company of all things brings us a guitar, a Martin from he 50's... for repair.

It was played in concert here in Ann Arbor back in the 60's at an anti-war rally that got violent...(seems like a contradiction of terms but I digress..) by John Sebastian and has that vibe and provenance going for it.

The head stock had been broken off and some hack.... smeared some mystery glue in there and then of all things.... roped the head stock back together pouring copious amounts of the same mystery glue all over the rope fibers.... and left the rope, about 10 feet of it to this very day.... Maybe it's tone rope and I just don't get it.... The bridge had been off and reglued and had screws holding it in place. Loose braces had been replaced by split 2 X 4 pieces smashed in place with likely some ep*xy.... glue.

The neck was a nightmare and needed to be reset and the fret work was beyond repair or dressing and needed to be redone. The top had more than 5 cracks, the guard lifting and again all of this had been repaired at one time or another by some hack who really needed to take something else up because they sucked at Lutherie....

So SURE it could be repaired and sure it had great sentimental value and maybe even some monetary value because of who played it and why back in the days of the true anti-establishment... "happening" that was the 60's.

What did I do with it? I showed our friend and the guitar the door that's what. Politely of course but I'm not touching the thing because then I own it and have some responsibility to make it whole again or die trying...:) I'm actually not even exaggerating here nor am I at all suggesting to you what to do here but I do want to relate to you the single greatest occupational hazard in my experience and polling of other Luthiers - we tend to hurt ourselves by trying to be all things to all folks.

Again not at all advising you what to do with this one, I don't do this and think that everyone should always do what ever they wish. :)

What I am suggesting to you is that sometimes in this business what looks like an opportunity can be an opportunity to fail at business, at Lutherie, and fail financially as well because of the opportunity costs of working on this one something unprofitable taking from your/our ability to work on something that will actually keep the lights on.

Granted I'm biased and even though I still get lots of fun out of working on the valuable personal property of others... I also try to maintain a keen eye toward what might hurt us and who might hurt us - always a concern with me and not a bad thing to learn to do either if you get commercial with Lutherie.

So....:) Sentimental value you say.....:) John Sebastian's ax was said to have great sentimental value too.

By the way he took it elsewhere and everyone else declined on the work too for the very same reasons that I did. He even went around me to Dave Collins and Dave didn't want to get any on him either... Yep that sentimental value thing...:)

Sometimes sentimental value should be spelled "centimental.... value" because it will cost us greatly.
Author:  DanKirkland [ Wed May 04, 2016 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Basket Case of an LP Repair
I understand Hesh. Trust me I turn away more work than I take in.

My plan for this is simple. Refinish the top and possibly the headstock, leave the back and sides as is (his choice not mine), clean the frets/fretboard, replace the electronics/hardware. String it up and call it done. I'm not going to mess with the neck at all and he is fine with that.
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