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Hi,

When I was in college, mid-90s, I bought a completely routed and generally mangled 62 Gibson Melody Maker. I blame youthful ignorance and inexperience for my failed effort to refinish it then. Many years later, I've completed several builds, designed and built instruments "from wood," done refrets, refins, and countless setups. I now feel I have the confidence and knowledge to revive this instrument in a way it deserves, but before I get started, I know hearing the opinions of experienced luthiers will be informative!

I don't have many pics currently (the instrument was in the possession of a friend for the last few years and only now heading my way UPS - fingers crossed), but the one attached should convey the horror fairly well.

Issues and questions:

1) Needs refret (some serious divots from string impacts).
Question: medium jumbo is a pretty generic descriptor. Any suggestions for frewire that would be fairly vintage accurate?
2) Body routed with a (dull) butter knife, or possibly done by a hamster or squirrel. There's a huge cavity with uneven edges under that horrible laminated plywood pickguard.
Question: should I attempt to clean up the cavity and glue in mahogany blocks? (See options below.)
3) The face of the guitar has been violently sanded. Probably near 1/4" of material has been removed. If you look at the neck joint on the left near the 20th 21st fret you can see a slope from the original thickness of the wood to the now incredibly thin thickness.
4) I take blame for the poor attempt at aged pellham blue. BUT, whoever owned this instrument prior to me finished it in some clear substance that repels even BIN shellac primer! It's almost like the whole thing was soaked in silicone or something. My nitro finish comes off in big flakes exposing "raw" wood. Yes, I stripped, sanded and prepped it prior to priming back in the 90s still horrible adhesion.
Question: Any ideas what that clear undercoat may be? My guess is it was done in the 70s.
5) crappy tune-o-matic I plan to restore some kind of wraparound bridge (note the original bridge post holes are visible and are not slanted as in the earlier MMs).

Option 1 - complete restore

Since the route is so horrific I don't think I'll ever be able to get a seamless repair by inlaying a block. I could re-route the cavity square and piece together a serviceable repair, but I'd have to remove a lot of wood, and there'd be a lot of seam between the new wood and old. The repair block would be huge, and I very much expect the new wood to shrink or swell leave gaps, cracks--or worst case--cause the body to split. It's a near certainy that the seams would eventually translate through the finish. So... my current thought is to glue in blocks without trying to get a tight fit. Then . . .

Machine the entire face of the guitar, removing just enough material to create a perfectly flat surface. I would then glue down a sufficiently thick mahogany cap and route the body to vintage specs. If I did a traditional sunburst, I would be able to hide the seam between the cap and original body all around the edge of the instrument. After installing a vintage correct pickguard and electronics I'd have a vintage correct restoration. Well, to the eye anyway.

Option 2 - creative restore

Same process as above, fill the routed cavity with mahogany block, leaving minimal room for expansion contraction. But take advantage of the fact that this will never be a 100% original instrument and get creative!

Again machine the face, but use a maple cap and optionally take the opportunity to do a bound body. I could avoid using a pickguard by installing tone/vol electronics in the cap prior to installation. I would install a P90 (not dog ear) and use that opening to pull out electronics (ala hollow body repairs) if ever required work.

Option 3 - Remanufacture - I'd remove the neck (I wouldn't even steam it off, just cut the body off on the band saw) and just make a new body and attach the neck. This is the obvious and easiest answer, but this would make it impossible for me to call it a repair, and difficult for me to call it a restoration. Plus I'm afraid I'd lose have the instruments soul!

What do you guys think?

I may have more questions once I have the guitar in hand again.

Thanks!

More Pics and we will be Glad to see this one come to life again !

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She's a great old ax - very cool!

Regarding your questions:

1) You can't be more vintage accurate than what's on her now fret wire wise if these are original. Perhaps measure and duplicate? BTW for some of us older dudes jumbo wire is not always the cat's meow so-to-speak and some of us hate it outright, me included. It feels like speed bumps under my fingers and that's why my new US Strat had half it's fret height milled off on purpose.....

2) These ax's are starting to be desirable and have some value to collectors. As such the least invasive that you can get is often the best course to take. Sure stuff happened back in the day but it is that "back in the day" vibe that is part of the individual history of this specific instrument. When in doubt - less or nothing at all is often more....

3) Same answer as 2 above, less can me more. What's done is done and any jumping though hoops now will be unrecoverable value in the sense that it's not authentic as part of the original instrument. I'd leave it as is in respect to most of the cosmetics and instead concentrate on restoring it's functionality as a player and being accurate to the original in that regard as well. I know that you may be chomping at the bit to do some Lutherie chops here but I can't tell you how many times these efforts with potentially valuable instruments only do further damage to perceived value.

4) It may not be the undercoat but some non-guitar polish with silicon in it that contaminated the entire wood surface as you already are suspecting. Once silicon has impregnated the wood all bets are off - again there is a certain charm in the current look, or, at least I think so.

5) Again it is what it is and I know that I keep saying this but my take on this instrument is to make it into a player with as little invasive actions as possible. Any and all attempts that you make will have diminishing returns because none of this will be original. I'm speaking of value here. If you are more interested in the ax being something that pleases you personally and your image for it by all means do what ever you wish and of course it's yours to do so with. But it is also important to understand the concept of how value is determined with vintage stuff. You will never hurt vintage value by making serviceable repairs that restore intended functionality. Add new, after market parts and capabilities that the instrument never had when new and it loses most value. Refinish a vintage instrument even with a superb job and the instrument can lose half it's value.....

I'm a fan of Melody makers and if it were mine and considering all the damage already done I would be deciding if I wanted to make it a daily player and not be concerned about it's value to anyone but me or, conversely it would be on my mind that if my goal was to flip it then I would have to subscribe to the standard practices for professional restorations and go that route. This one may be beyond that not in the sense that it can't be done but very much in the sense that the more you do the less it's worth.... Go figure....

There really are no hard rules here EXCPET if you are going to want top dollar then it's a professional restoration and a pretty difficult one too I will add with no guarantees because of current condition if it's even worth it.

These had very narrow nuts, 1.5" IIRC and single tail pieces with out individually adjustable saddles. They also had P-90's IIRC and they were labeled "Melody Maker" under the end of the fret board. So very much of this instrument has been changed including the top thickness that again if it were mine I would go the route of making it a cool player.

Could be a lot of fun!

Thanks Hesh,

All very good advice and I agree 100%. I guess your implicit question is really the first thing I need to decide:

Will this be a "forever guitar" that I keep because I love it? Or, will this be something I sell?

Thank you for reminding me to be clear in my own head as to my objective. I think the answer--without much doubt--is this will be a "forever guitar." The reason I'm so confident of this is simply its vintage and value to me personally. This is a guitar I played in my first "serious" bands with, a guitar I wrote songs on, a guitar that lived through the salad days of college! It's got too much personal history to ever let it out of my hands again. (I regret letting it stay with my friend for so long anyway.)

So, since that's the answer to questions "zero" I think I have my answer to how to approach this. I'm going to bring it back to a condition that strikes a balance between "vintage" and what I like. I think I'll plane the top, add a cap (maple or mahogany to be decided), install a single p90 and forego a pickguard!

Now, this could change once I get her back in my hands. If it feels mostly playable and especially if I can fit a decent pickguard on her, I might just strip off my crappy finish, sand, seal, prime and respray.

But yay! I'm getting closer to a decision? I'd still love to hear thoughts from any other member. Anyone every completely regret a decision like this?

Revamp and mod to your hearts' delight. It has little collector value, and since you'll be keeping it, why not make it as cool as you want it to be? I say go for it. (and post pix)

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Very cool Ryan and I like your idea too! Be sure to give us a peek when you feel like she's ready for prime time. Should be a very fun project!

My first real guitar I get sentimental when I see the reproductions available today of Fender Mustangs but then after working on them and playing one I start to remember all that sucked about them too.... terrible trem.... weak pups.... weird-arse switches always in the wrong spot.

I've always wanted a Melody Maker though and there are some at Elderly Instruments in Lansing Michigan from time to time that I have very nearly gotten out the plastic for. If you check Elderly in the vintage section you can see what these guitars go for and they are not getting any cheaper either as time passes by.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur but the simplicity of the Melody Makers and some early SG's is my kind of guitar, simple, lots of tonewood, made here in Michigan, and great tone - what more could anyone ask for! IIRC Billy Gibbons played a Melody Maker and it may have been his first guitar.

Now you have to grow a beard too!

I have a treat for you guys. I also have a "62 Melody Maker. Mine is somewhat unusual because it has two pick-ups and tremelo. I purchased mine when I was a sophomore in high school in 1970. It was in a pawn shop. I traded a crappy Strat copy and $62 for it. I guess at that time it wasn't all that old... It was covered in dust and the top two tuners were bent. I replaced the tuners back then and played the hell out it. It was the only guitar I had for many years. About maybe ten years ago I had a local guitar repair guy do a fret job on it and clean the tuners. By that time I had worn the frets down pretty far. It needed the re-fret really bad. I have many instruments now and this little MM is really a nice guitar. These were intended to be a student guitar when they were made, but there ain't a thing wrong with this guitar. ..very nice tone. One other thing I did back in the 1970's is a replaced the bridge with an adjustable one. Which made intonation adjustment much better. Unfortunately, I think I have lost the original bridge... but I don't care.

_________________
Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Sweetness.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

That's really nice, Steve! Great that you've had it for all these years!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Well I've got the guitar in my hands!

Checked the Guitar Serial Number site and got:

Your guitar was made at the
Kalamazoo Plant, USA
approximately in: 1963 or 1967

So this is almost certainly a 63, because by 67 MMs looked like SGs, but more importantly the original bridge stud holes are visible and it's parallel to the frets/nut.

It's been MASSIVELY sanded down. I measured the body's thickness at 1.244" where the specs for melody makers are 1.375" (1 3/8")

Also, as pictures show, the body has been routed out by someone using a forstner bit and possibly a chain saw.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. Leaning towards stripping, filling in some of the route with mahogany block and applying a mahogany veneer as close to 1/4" thick as possible. But yeah, just not sure.

So it's down an 1/8. Have you thought about gluing a cap on it? Strip it, put the plug in. At that point you are free to do just about any thing you want in terms of pick up and control routes. Glue a maple cap on it, and do a natural finish. It'd look sweet!

Cool, my first guitar was a Mustang too. I think it was yellow with an orange racing stripe. The tremolo really sucked. I came across the original pickup that I saved and stuck it into a Tele recently. Man, it sounded pretty dull. Those days back in the 70's were still the best in my life, regardless of how crappy our band was.
I read that the Melody Maker had a great neck profile that many people like.
I hate the headstock.
Still, being at Gibson's low end, they were probably superior to the Fenders of the time.

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Steve that is a VERY fine example of a MM!!! I have guitar envy now and want one too!

Dan those early Mustangs were very cool mine was white (or yellowish since it was used and not in great shape) with a tortis guard. I stripped mine, painted it gloss black and did an American flag on the pick guard with a peace sign in the blue part. It was cool! This was my first foray into Lutherie and it seems to have inspired a life long love of the craft/trade.

I earned the money for this Mustang myself delivering newspapers on my Schwinn Ram's horn Fastback, five speed in sapphire blue metal flake.... I also mowed lawns until one lousy client kept putting off paying me.... I tried to collect three times and they just blew me off and laughed at me too telling me that I should never trust people. So I let their yard grow long since I was not going to expose myself to these deadbeats again and one day when they were not home I went over there and in the now 9" grass carefully by starting and stopping the mower mowed a two word suggestion..... to them in 10 foot tall letters.... that would be visible every time that they looked out their front window. My two word suggestion led to the police visiting me and my family and my Dad thought that what I did was rather funny..... Then I got grounded and prohibited from mowing lawns for money in the future. Who knew that these two words in my suggestion to a dead beat customer would cause all of this trouble..... Might had gone down better if there was not a church next door.....

Ryan I like Allen's very good idea and maybe consider routing out the cavities with clean lines, filling with mahogany, rerouting to spec or what ever you are going to need for the intended electronics and then putting a maple cap on her. PRS meets vintage Gibson!

So I removed the neck. Not as pretty as I'd hoped. The hide glue (I used to call it "rabbit glue") stunk as it does when I used a hot knife to separate the neck joint. Unfortunately, my patience is always outmatched by my tendency to use force, and . . . POP! The neck separated taking the sides of the joint (part of the body that extends up to the 16th fret) along with it.

Not completely unexpected, because I saw signs of cracking along the neck joint already.

Good news is the neck is in fine condition. Already stripped of most paint, and sanded a bit just to clean it up and get a look at it.

Discoveries:

1) the neck joint on this melody maker is a heck of a lot stronger than I ever would have expected.
2) I got a couple blasts of really really noxious fumes when heating the joint. Possibly a cyanoacrylate repair from years past?
3) be careful, this old wood really sands quick!
4) citrus strip (trying to preserve my brain cells) works great on nitrocellulose, not so great on bin/zinsser shellac primer
5) neck route in the body is flat, i.e. bottom neck channel is parallel to the surface of the back/face of the body. The neck heel itself has about a 2 degree angle cut into it
6) the truss rod channel maple filler strip is visible at the heel end of the neck, just below the fretboard. So the truss rod must be pretty close to center of the mahogany neck (not counting the fretboard). Not a lot of material behind the rod, despite the "chunk" profile?
7) the strap button screw does protrude into the neck itself by about 1/4" extra strength?

Now, here's a thought I had . . . the body is pretty massively mangled. I could glue the wood back in place around the joint, plane the body and attache a mahogany (or heck, maple, sapele or whatever) or just build a whole new body.

Here's the deal, the face of the guitar is pretty much completely trashed in all ways. Not just the extra route, but the extra holes for the stop tail/ tune-o-matic, gouges, screw holes. etc. but the back is in pretty good shape.

What I WISH I could do but don't have the tools for, is to resaw the entire body and make the BACK into a new CAP for a new body! Wouldn't that be cool! I don't know anyone near me that's setup to resaw 14" of oddly shaped board though.

Going to the lumber yard later today, pick out some mahogany for the new body.

I'm thinking of doing a 1 1/8th mahogany body, with a 3/8" maple cap. Maybe I'll get creative and do something like a rosewood or zebrawood cap. Dunno, see what appeals to me at the hardwood store.

Well now you know someone near by who can do that.
Shoot me a PM and I'll help you out.

Steve

Can you post a picture of the body with the neck off?

I'm going to do a bit of armchair quarterbacking here.

I've been watching this since you posted it. The thing that bugged me from the start was that the top had been sanded so the guitar was thin. But in the end that could end up being a blessing for you. Since you have the neck off, I'm thinking that will make things easier for what I'm thinking you should do.

Here goes.

Make a template and take lots of measurements form the body. You'll need to either buy or make a template to re-rout your pickup cavities.

Flatten the top of the guitar. You could run it through a drum sander or you could level it out with a router. I was looking for a thread I read where someone did this with a Fender but haven't found it yet. It might not have been on this site. I'll keep looking. Flattening it with a router can be done by building a box around the body and mounting the router to a board. The board spans over the with of the box so the router wont fall in. If done right, this will give you a level surface.

Rout out the pickup cavities so that you have a uniform shape that you can match up to a plug. Then fill these with your mahogany plug.

Flatten again. Just making sure that the top (gluing surface) is level.

Determine how thick your cap needs to be to get the body back to the proper depth.

Glue on an appropriately sized (thickness) cap. I'd go with mahogany since that was what was on there in the first place.

Pattern rout the body shape from the original back slab. You now have your new ( or repaired original) body.

Route out your neck pocket matching the original or using a template. This is the same point where I'd also route the pickup cavities and drill any holes that are needed.

Glue the neck on.

Finish in something close to original. Or if you want to hide something, I'd go back to your Pelham blue.

Good luck with this.

John

John, you did a much better job explaining "Option 1" than I did in my first post. There's a router bit specifically designed for planing. It goes for around $50 on amazon, just search "Magnate 2707 Surface Planing router."

I may still attempt to salvage some of the wood from the body. But the picture above really doesn't describe the damage done to this body.

Mercifully, I don't think much sanding/shaping has been done to the edges of the guitar over the years. So, I'm going to use the original body as a template to cut a MDF template.

Here's my simple plan:

1) rough cut the shape of the body in 1/4" or 1/2" MDF
2) double sided tape the MDF rough cut onto the back of the body
3) carefully cut the MDF close to the contour of the body on the bandsaw (yes, body still attached to avoid misalignment for next step)
4) use the table router with a flush trim bit (top bearing) to follow the contour of the body exactly, reproducing a perfect duplicate on the MDF

So with an exactly matching MDF template I have my option to cut a new mahogany blank, or just a mahogany top, or whatever really.

Well, I screwed up pretty big.

Kind-of embarrassed to admit it since I'm new here but, eh, we all make mistakes . . . even mistakes this stupid . . . right? Right?

I got all set up on my router table to cut the MDF template. Rough cut the MDF, mounted it to the body, picked my favorite top bearing bit, loaded it up, and started cutting.

Wasn't till I was COMPLETELY finished, that I realized I had the bit setup to cut a binding channel. Yep, I had an undersized bearing on it.

So now I have two things I didn't want: ONE a perfect MDF template - except 1/16" smaller than it should be, and TWO a Melody Maker body with the back partially routed for binding.

Yes, I'm an idiot.

I guess now there's no going back--it's a new body. I can still use this one to cut another template of course, but it's now suffered the greatest damage in my hands.

Never done anything this bird-brained before. Oh well, [s]live and learn[/s] actually there's not really even a lesson to learn here.

Most of us here have made similar or worse mistakes. I usually close the shop and let it sit till the next day. By then I've got a plan to move forward.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

The project isn't ruined.

Thank God this wasn't someone else's guitar!

I'll still get a good template out of it, just really disappointed that this body is now officially out of commission. I'll re-use the wood on something really special (some point in the distant future) once I get a perfect template cut.

I guess now the question is 40 min. east to Owl Hardwoods or 35 min west to The Hardwood Connection. To the east more Mahogany to choose from. To the west, nice open roads and Pete's Famous Hot Dogs at the intersection of Rte. 64 and Rte. 47.

Steve, I've never been to the hardwood connection. Driven by it, but never stopped off. It's worth the trip huh? I can do a slight detour on my way home from work Wednesday and spend an hour or so digging through owl. Woodcraft sometimes has decent hardwood, but at a premium price. Woodcraft also carries behlen nitro in dark walnut. But definitely owl first.

So tomorrow I'm going to try to get some mahogany. Plan is to go in the direction of a Melody Maker Jr.

- 1 1/2" thick body
- two P90s
- simple controls: tone, volume, three way switch
- I'll use a telecaster control blank (no holes) for a control cavity cover in back. Though it might look cool in front tele-style actually.
- no pickguard

I'll take advantage of the opportunity of building a body from scratch by routing the pickup cavities, then drilling through to connect both from the neck pocket, the it's just a straight shot to the control cavity, so I shouldn't need routed paths or a pickguard.

Few questions for you guys.

1) what do you all recommend for grain filler? I've done traditional filler, cyanoacrylate, and my favorite shellac slurry (wet sanding with 320 grit paper and a thin cut of shellac) but I HATE filling, so I'd like to know if there's any fast easy way I've missed. (I'm thinking about epoxy, though I've never done it.)
2) anyone have any experience with Behlen Lacquer, Dark Mahogany nitro spray? I've mentioned it above, but never used it. Woodcraft has it for $10 a can. (I know, I need to get a spray booth.)
3) what about the control plate? Face, or back?
4) suggestions for non-dog ear P90s? I can get a newer genuine Gibson (bar magnet) set for about $150.

Feeling better about my goof up. Thanks guys!

Hey Ryan,

There is no fast easy way to pore fill. It's a tedious job that you need to take your time with. I never had much luck with epoxy and prefer medium CA. Behlen rattle cans are good stuff. Use the Dark Mahogany to get the color you want and then switch to clear to build your finish. If you do the whole finish in the color it will look like you painted the guitar.
I like the original pick guard shape on these so I would not put a Tele plate on the front.
Seymour Duncan soap bar P90's

The Hardwood Connection is worth the trip. They have different stock than Owl. Not near as much volume in exotics as Owl but a lot of stuff Owl doesn't have, Ancient Kauri, Osage Orange, Paldao and aircraft grade Sitka come to mind. Not as friendly either, kind of a "Yer not from 'round here, are ya boy" feeling from a couple of guys there. The owner Ken is cool. They have a nice load of tools to drool on and a table some local guy sells antique hand tools from.

Yeah Steve, of course you're right. There is no easy way. I keep thinking "the next great thing" will come along and take all the elbow grease out of the job. Epoxy was my big hope . . . since it's one method I haven't tried. I guess not.

I finally got a nice piece of African mahogany from owl. I decided to go the cheaper route and get a 7" wide board, cut and glue it. They DID have a really nice piece of genuine mahogany slab, 14" wide, 1/34" thick and about 48" long. But with a price tag of $125 I had to pass it by. If it was 58" long I'd have bought it, that would get me three bodies. But I couldn't bring myself to spend $75 for this body. The board that will become the two piece body ended up costing $40.

I've already cut it and prepped it for gluing. It's nearly a perfect quarter sawn piece, so the grain looks a bit "streaky" but it will make for a near invisible center seam.

Tonight I'll glue, tomorrow I'll cut the body, this weekend I'll route the neck pocket and control cavity. Then I'll decide if 1 1/2" is too thick for this neck. If it looks off--no heel of course--I'll have Owl sand it down another 1/8".

It would be really cool to work with some swamp kauri! Will definitely have to check out Hardwood Connection based on your description! Of course, I'm a city expat, so I'll probably get the attitude full force! Lol, oh well.