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A little advice on a home re-finish.
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=45152		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  xgabrielx [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  A little advice on a home re-finish.
Currently, I just have black BBQ paint from a can! I'm not super concerned about looks, but I think I can do a much nicer job.
The problem, is the guitar has a decorative top and bottom and was originally covered in very thick lacquer. (which took the paint with it when I decided so much had chipped off that I might as well remove it) But this wood is very soft; I can press my fingernail through the finish and leave a groove. I don't want to apply thick layers of anything to it as removing the lacquer made it sound much better, but a thin layer of something a little more durable wouldn't go amiss.
And..since I'm doing this at home and using cans...what's the best stuff to use? I grabbed the BBQ stuff before, but I have no idea why. Maybe it was all they had in black.
Might a clear coat on top offer some protection? (and are there any combinations of color/clear types to avoid for any reason?)

I'm not looking for a professional, show-room finish. It wouldn't even be the end of the world to leave it as it is, but I'm going to be routing some body cavities and filling others, so now's the best time to think about getting back down to bare wood and starting over.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
Would you mind posting some pix before we decide?
Author:  xgabrielx [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
Here you go. Looks like the chrome could do with a bit of a wipe as well. I'd like to see the hardware nickel plated. The sticker...well I guess it's got to go, but it has to be replaced with something. Not having it there upsets the beautiful lines laughing6-hehe
Image
Author:  Mike Lindstrom [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
And what do you want to end up with? Do you want another black guitar? Sometimes when you strip those down, you can find interesting wood underneath. Do you want to keep it distressed? If you want to end up with a nice flat finish, you've got a fair amount of work filling and sanding. If you're looking to get a nice lacquer finish from spray cans, Reranch does fairly well. If you just want to protect the now exposed wood, Minwax Wipe-on Poly is fast, easy, and tough. I don't know anything about putting it over paint.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
I suggest you get all the hardware off , and the neck removed and lets see what you have . You are a loonnng way from worrying about finish at this point . You have no idea what wood is under there at this point , it may be full of bondo in places .
Author:  xgabrielx [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
Mike Lindstrom wrote:
And what do you want to end up with? Do you want another black guitar? Sometimes when you strip those down, you can find interesting wood underneath. Do you want to keep it distressed? If you want to end up with a nice flat finish, you've got a fair amount of work filling and sanding. If you're looking to get a nice lacquer finish from spray cans, Reranch does fairly well. If you just want to protect the now exposed wood, Minwax Wipe-on Poly is fast, easy, and tough. I don't know anything about putting it over paint.


I know what the wood is underneath -- The original finish was VERY thick lacquer over red stained wood. All I'm looking to do is get back down to the wood and put another black finish on it. But hopefully one that won't be so delicate due to the softness of the wood. I have no intention of replacing the thin top and bottom -- they were probably never much more than 5mm to begin with -- like I said, I'm not hugely concerned. Shiny and black will do me fine. Any advantage in terms of how shiny or how black it is and how long it stays that way is a plus. I don't know what type of wood we're dealing with, either. Just that it's pretty dang soft. But the current paint is very soft too. I'm not looking for great, or even good; it's just the colour, and it all sounds the same with the lights out. Just looking for the best option to make it less prone to recording every little ding. I'm probably gonna take it back to bare wood anyway
Author:  Mike Lindstrom [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
Toughest easy DIY finish I know of is wipe on polyurethane. When I used this in a non-wipe on version, it worked well. And no fumes to worry about.
http://www.vermontnaturalcoatings.com/o ... -polywhey/

In my experience, black and shiny is the hardest thing to do well.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
Its all Conjecture until we get down to the work and completely strip it down and sanded . idunno
Author:  xgabrielx [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
I should point out that I absolutely know what's under the finish. removed the original lacquer years ago when it started coming off in big slabs. It was thick lacquer over thin red paint. It looked iike it was stained because you could clearly see the grain, but tt was only on the surface because the lacquer toot it off with it in places.
There's also a littl filling that needs to be done. As you can see around that swithch behind the bridge, there's a cavity there which I intend to fill.
The original re-finish I put on wasn't as awful as what you see here. As I said, I'm not looking for perfection or even close.
It doesn't necessarily have to be black, but there was originally binding to hide the seam between the top and bottom and the actual main body. Maybe a tobacco sunburst type finish would work?
Author:  dzsmith [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
Yeah, I'd save the sticker at all costs.
I'd start by removing all of the hardware and giving a good cleaning.
I think Naptha would be a safe cleaner.
Not all lacquer is the same: don't use nitro over acrylic.
Been there, done that, and after 3 years it is still soft.
Author:  xgabrielx [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
For some reason my posts aren't appearing for ages, or not at all. I'm not sure what's up with that, but the key things are...

The finish you see here is nothing but BBQ spray paint on the bare wood. There is some filling that needs doing like around that control cavity behind the bridge. And the wood itself on the top and bottom is very soft.
Author:  dzsmith [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
Yeah man,
I noticed some of my recent posts have disappeared.
Beats me?
Author:  xgabrielx [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
Know what? It really wouldn't be too much work to take off the top and bottom and replace them with something more durable.
I might to this. I dunno. Can you buy thin sheets of book-matched wood for this purpose? I don't have the tools to do it myself. I think this guitar would look nice with a dark tobacco sunburst

Edit: The soft "veneer" I'm talking about on my guitar isn't even what I'd call a veneer. It's WAY thicker. The front and back combined make up maybe as much as one quarter of the guitars total thickness. I think 6mm would be the minimum I'd need

Edit: Looking at the prices, I don't think it's worth it. Maybe I'll just find some alder (I believe the body is alder) in the right thickness and just use a thin veneer.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
Grandpa used to say , boy I hear a lot of chopping but I just ain't seeing no chips !! Just do it !
Author:  xgabrielx [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
WudWerkr wrote:
Grandpa used to say , boy I hear a lot of chopping but I just ain't seeing no chips !! Just do it !


Do what though? My problem is how soft the top and bottom are. I'm trying to find out if I can just finish it in a solid colour better by applying something to protect it, or if I can just by thin enough sheets (say 6mm) to replace it. The bookmatched tops I've found are too thick and too expensive to justify. Especially since the guitar was double bound and the back is soft stuff as well.

Those are the choices: a hard enough finish, or a replacement that is just plain wood. Not fancy expensive decorative stuff.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A little advice on a home re-finish.
Gabe, the point people are trying to make here is simple. We want you on the forum, glad to have you . We want you to learn and grow as a luthier. Glad to help u in any way we can . HOWEVER you have 4 threads going on a $25.00 guitar and thus are all you have is talk . Remove the hardware, strip it all the way back down and lets see something we can comment on to help u .
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