Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Nov 28, 2024 5:09 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:18 am 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:44 pm
Posts: 28
First name: Dan
State: Pennsylvania
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
While she might not be one of the more venerable brand names out there, she's the first guitar I bought with my hard earned money back in the early 1990's and I need to bring her back to former glory. Veneer in the front is cracked but did not completely separate. From what I understand, this could actually complicate the repair since I'll have a tough time filling the entire void with glue now.

The back... ugh, the back... gaah In addition to the gaping maw of doom, there is also a crack that runs up into the tuning peg area (tough to see in the pic here) that I will need to address as well.

We use TBIII at work (cabinetmaker) and I'm fairly confident that once I get it clamped up and isolated, it will create a repair that will withstand the stress a 12 string has to handle, but before I make a single move, I'm curious to hear the opinions of the guys who've already made their rookie mistakes so that I might avoid them on this project.

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:27 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5824
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Oh, man - nice clean break. Easy peasy - just glue it up, clamp overnight. Shouldn't even need to touch up the finish.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince



These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Tom Barton (Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:01 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:26 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4524
First name: Big
Last Name: Jim
State: Deep in the heart of Bluegrass
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Chris Pile wrote:
Oh, man - nice clean break. Easy peasy - just glue it up, clamp overnight. Shouldn't even need to touch up the finish.


I have to say I agree with Chris here That shouldn't be an issue if its glued well and clamped tight . I would let it cure a while and make sure its fresh glue. Use a syringe to get glue all the way in to the joint . Personally , I would rather clean up "over glue" than take a chance one missing any areas .

[:Y:]

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:18 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:44 pm
Posts: 28
First name: Dan
State: Pennsylvania
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Awesome. Can't wait to tackle this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:57 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:06 pm
Posts: 414
First name: Allan
Last Name: Bacon
State: Kansas
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Couple of thoughts on the glue up.
If you can, clamp it so the headstock points down. Let gravity help you along. Push glue until you see it run out the upper edge (now the edge closest to he floor) on the sides. You may want to thin it a bit to assure good flow. I like to leave them in the clamps for a couple of days. Especially if you thin the glue.

And of course, you can use the compressor blow gun to help push the glue where you can't reach with the nozzle or a brush. Also pipe cleaners are useful to make sure you get good coverage.

And if the truss rod is in danger of the glue fixing it, use a q-tip or pipe cleaner to smear automotive wax on it so it will break loose.

Oh, don't use TBIII, use the good ole original TB1.

Pics!



These users thanked the author fumblefinger for the post: Dancin Dan (Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:52 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:25 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:59 am
Posts: 1964
Location: Rochester Michigan
fumblefinger wrote:
Oh, don't use TBIII, use the good ole original TB1.

Pics!


I agree with everything said here with one mild exception - go for the TB Extend in this case. It actually dries even harder than the TB1 (which is actually just fine for this) but you get the added bonus of the longer work time.

Thinning the glue a bit with water is also excellent advice, just a bit though. Work the glue in there by gently working the crack open and closed a bit too.

_________________
http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:18 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:44 pm
Posts: 28
First name: Dan
State: Pennsylvania
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
fumblefinger wrote:
Couple of thoughts on the glue up.
If you can, clamp it so the headstock points down. Let gravity help you along. (I'll take any help I can get!) Push glue until you see it run out the upper edge (now the edge closest to he floor) on the sides. You may want to thin it a bit to assure good flow. I like to leave them in the clamps for a couple of days. Especially if you thin the glue.

And of course, you can use the compressor blow gun to help push the glue where you can't reach with the nozzle or a brush. Also pipe cleaners are useful to make sure you get good coverage.

And if the truss rod is in danger of the glue fixing it, use a q-tip or pipe cleaner to smear automotive wax on it so it will break loose.Wax the truss rod. Check!

Oh, don't use TBIII, use the good ole original TB1.Por que?

Pics!


Pics? Oh, there WILL be pics... just as soon as I get a day off.

I've been working on the final install of a staircase at a music company based in Manhattan. Kind of a cool job. Reclaimed maple laid treads & landings on a floating iron staircase in front of a mural of the founder of Atlantic Records. I'll DEFINITELY snap a pic of that when we're done.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:30 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:44 pm
Posts: 28
First name: Dan
State: Pennsylvania
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Andy Birko wrote:
fumblefinger wrote:
Oh, don't use TBIII, use the good ole original TB1.

Pics!


I agree with everything said here with one mild exception - go for the TB Extend in this case. It actually dries even harder than the TB1 (which is actually just fine for this) but you get the added bonus of the longer work time.

Thinning the glue a bit with water is also excellent advice, just a bit though. Work the glue in there by gently working the crack open and closed a bit too.



Hmm. So now we have TB Extend in the mix. Seems like the type of glue could be a point of contention with these Luthiers.

I may need to educate myself on the pros/cons of Titebond I, II, III versus each other and other glues before I throw down on this job.

Have any of the venerable guitar repair gurus on the board ever done a write-up on the differences between common glue products?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:21 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:06 pm
Posts: 414
First name: Allan
Last Name: Bacon
State: Kansas
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
I wasn't aware of the extend version. Titebond's website says Extend is Titebond I with extended working time, so this would probably be a good thing. Just don't get in a hurry to take it out of the clamps. Another thing I forgot earlier was to put scotch tape around the crack. This way anything that you don't get cleaned off will only be .002" thick.

You might pick up a few hints from these. Good luck, and again PICS!!!
viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=44497&p=588412#p588412
http://www.strangeguitarworks.com/fixin ... headstock/
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/luthier ... epair.html



These users thanked the author fumblefinger for the post: Dancin Dan (Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:56 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:57 am 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:44 pm
Posts: 28
First name: Dan
State: Pennsylvania
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Good advice. When we use epoxy for landings, we use blue painter's tape for that very reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:20 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:59 am
Posts: 1964
Location: Rochester Michigan
fumblefinger wrote:
Titebond's website says Extend is Titebond I with extended working time, so this would probably be a good thing.


There was a guy on this forum who's name I can't remember that used to work for Franklin and he said that Titebond extend is actually better for guitar work than TB1....actually, I just took the time for a quick search and found the thread: http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... 79#p595379

_________________
http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:48 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:32 pm
Posts: 3470
First name: Alex
Last Name: Kleon
City: Whitby
State: Ontario
Zip/Postal Code: L1N8X2
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hugh Evans, I think.

Alex

_________________
"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Broken Headstock
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:44 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:06 pm
Posts: 414
First name: Allan
Last Name: Bacon
State: Kansas
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Thanks for passing that along Andy. I'll have to go out and stock up on some extend. Makes sense.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com