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Silver Creek T-160 finish question
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Author:  Zac Stout [ Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Silver Creek T-160 finish question
I have a Silver Creek T-160 (000, mahogany) that I picked up for a steal a few years ago. It was only $150 new (tiny little finish blemish around the end pin) from Musician's Friend, and I had the option of returning it if I didn't like it, so I said what the heck and ordered it (also the only guitar I've ever bought without playing it first). It turned out to be a surprisingly nice sounding guitar for the money.

A few months ago, I pulled it out of the case after not playing it for a while, and noticed that the bridge was starting to lift slightly. It's not my daily player, so I took the strings off and it's just been sitting there ever since. I'm getting close to finishing up my first build, and I don't have an immediate project lined up for my next one yet. Since I got this guitar so cheap, I'm thinking I may try my hand at a few repairs and cosmetic upgrades on this one as a learning experience.

The only real repair issue is the lifting bridge. The bridge that came on the guitar is rather large and chunky, so instead of just gluing it back down I'd like to replace it with a smaller, rectangular bridge I made myself. I also dislike the big dread size pickguard and would like to replace that with a more traditional teardrop shaped guard. The Silver Creek logo on the headstock is pretty terrible looking...the letters don't line up well, and it just looks cheap and crappy to my eye. I'd like to try my hand at inlaying a headstock, so I'm leaning towards removing the headstock overlay and replacing it with one of my own design. I may play around with shaving the braces a bit too, as I can hear a few dead spots when I tap along the X braces below the bridge.

Like I said, the guitar was dirt cheap. If I screw this up terribly, it's not a big loss, though the guitar sounds nice enough that I'd be really happy if I don't ruin it eek . I'm thinking the changes I'd like to make are gonna require a new finish, due to the smaller bridge footprint, the "suntan" that will show around the smaller pickguard, and the removal of the headstock veneer. I wouldn't mind refinishing the guitar, it would give me valuable practice for the future. Does anyone know what kind of finish was used on these guitars? I've done some looking around online, but the only specs I've been able to find on the finish simply say gloss. I'm wondering what I'm getting myself into if I decide to strip the finish, and the best way to go about it. Is this a terrible idea? Am I getting in over my head? Can/should this be done without completely stripping the finish and redoing it? Any advice is appreciated.

Here's a few pictures if they make things any clearer.

Attachment:
lifting bridge 1.jpg


Attachment:
lifting bridge 2.jpg


Attachment:
bridge comparison.jpg


Attachment:
headstock.jpg


Looking forward to hearing your feedback!

Thanks,

Zac
Author:  Glen H [ Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
If you've set your mind to working on it for the experience, try a finish touch up around the bridge footprint. If it never looks right, go ahead and refinish it. You can find out what the finish real easily. Put some lacquer thinner on it. If it softens, it's lacquer (or something softer) that can be chemically stripped. If not, pull out the orbital sander, you'll have to mechanically remove it.
Author:  bfeils [ Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
Can you see under the place it's lifting? is there finish under the bridge? Some of those chinese guitars have the bridge epoxied on right over the finish.
Author:  Zac Stout [ Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
Brandon, there's not enough lift on the bridge to tell if there's finish underneath or not. I can just barely slide a .018" feeler gauge under the edge of the wing, but as far as I can see, it's only lifting along the edge of the wing shown in the pictures. There is also an almost imperceptible lift at the back corner of the bass side wing, but the vast majority of the bridge appears to be fairly intact. I'll break out my real camera (the pics in the post were taken with my iPhone, and it was really hard to get it to focus on the crack between the bridge and the top) and see if I can zoom in and use the flash to see a little better under there.

Glen, my mind isn't made up on stripping and refinishing yet, but I have just about zero experience with finishing at this point. I don't have any spray equipment, so I'm planning on using Sutherland Welles polymerized tung oil and doing a wipe-on finish on my first, and there should be enough left over to refinish this guitar as well. I don't know that the tung oil will work if I try to blend it with the current finish. With the smaller bridge footprint, the pickguard suntan, and a new headstock veneer, I'd rather refinish the whole guitar than have it look terrible where I made changes. This really is a learning project for me, so I don't mind putting in the work to get it right the first time.

Thanks for the replies, and keep 'em coming! I'm here to learn from those who know better than me!
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
You'll see how much finish is under the bridge if you remove it... you may be surprised at how small the glue footprint is which is probably why you see a little daylight under the wings. The finish on these (definitely not nitro lacquer but some non-repairable catalyzed finish) is tinted orange IIRC which will make it very difficult to blend in especially if you don't have any experience with it, so you'll likely be looking at refinishing the whole top if you want it to look perfect.

The headstock should be easy... it's actually not an inlay at all; the abalone is paper thin and just glued on top of the rosewood/finish. Sand back to wood and it'll be gone.
Author:  Zac Stout [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
Thanks for the tips, James. Any suggestions on the best way to go about stripping the finish from the top?
Author:  B. Howard [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
Zac Stout wrote:
Any suggestions on the best way to go about stripping the finish from the top?


A chemical stripper is the way to go. You cannot do very much sanding when stripping the finish on an acoustic body,especially the soft spruce top. It is really easy to sand the top almost paper thin without ever even realizing it.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
Any of the cheap Asian guitars I have pulled bridges off to repair, the bridge is glued to the finish with a CA like glue. Often the glue tears the finish off when it lets go. On these non Nitro finishes small area finish damage can be repaired with CA, the StewMac brush on medium works real well.

Fred
Author:  B. Howard [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
Ca is a poor choice on a spruce top if you are trying to cover bare wood, it can turn green.
Author:  Zac Stout [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
Thanks for the replies, everyone. Brian, would you mind elaborating a little on the process? I'm a total newb when it comes to finishing, and the information I've been able to dig up online is all over the place and mostly deals with stripping the finish off furniture. Seems to me my best bet would be to use a chemical stripper and maybe a cabinet scraper to remove the bulk, and then finish up with steel wool or some very light sanding? If you could recommend a specific product or process to point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it greatly.

Also, to add some info to the original post, I chipped a piece off of the finish blemish by the end pin yesterday. This stuff is on there THICK. If the guitar sounds as good as it does with this thick finish and that big heavy bridge, I think I might have something really nice to play if I can pull this job off...
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
Zac Stout wrote:
Thanks for the tips, James. Any suggestions on the best way to go about stripping the finish from the top?

To be honest I would try my best to avoid it... I'd do spot touch ups by sealing any bare wood with shellac then painting in various tinted shellac until the color looks right, then drop fill with CA glue, level sand/scrape and buff. It'll likely never look perfect but you can probably get pretty close with a little experimenting on scrap and patience.

If I absolutely had to refinish it I would sand the old finish off, but realize that these guitars have a thick, tough finish so it will take some time. Also the top will be distorted in places from being under tension for a few years so no matter how careful you are you're necessarily going to take some wood along with the finish to get it truly even, and those spots will likely be the spots where the top is under the most strain.

I have no experience with chemical strippers so I can't speak to that option... anything that can take a finish like this off I don't want anywhere near me if I can help it.

All just my opinion of course; there are lots of ways to get jobs like this done... paying close attention, thinking it through, and finding what works for you is more important than any single method.
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silver Creek T-160 finish question
B. Howard wrote:
Ca is a poor choice on a spruce top if you are trying to cover bare wood, it can turn green.

Second this. Sealing with shellac before applying CA will keep this from happening.
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