| Official Luthiers Forum! http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Silvertone Archtop http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=44301 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | George L [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Silvertone Archtop |
A friend gave me an old Silvertone archtop the other day. It's a funky guitar and in terrific shape, but, like most of its brethren, the action is so high that it's pretty tough to play. I was thinking of trying to improve the geometry by resetting the neck. I assume it's a dovetail, but thought I'd check here for possible confirmation and words of advice before diving in. Anyone with experience to share? Thanks in advance! George :-) Here's a pic: 
|
|
| Author: | Haans [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Klassy! Don't know if the neck is a dovetail, but you could remove the 15th fret and drill a hole...should be a slot under there. Those can be very nice instruments. |
|
| Author: | cphanna [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Hey, George, I can't tell about the dovetail, either, but I think you've got a real cool old guitar there. I'm sure you'll get several useful answers pretty soon. Whatever you decide to do, please document it and show us. I really like old arch tops and I'm pretty sure you'll get the playing action improved on this one. Best of luck. Patrick |
|
| Author: | David Collins [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Very cool old Silvertone - I love that style! Yes, they're dovetails, and typically some of the easiest to remove an reset. |
|
| Author: | George L [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Thanks for the replies, fellas. It's a cool guitar. I still have to get used to the sound, which is way different from that of a flat top, of course. Should be fun for bluesy stuff. The fingerboard is elevated and the heel is lifting slightly at the back. Seems like I should be able to get the joint to let loose without too much trouble. I'm going to go for it here pretty soon. Will take a few snaps as I do and report back. Here are a couple more shots of the neck joint...  
|
|
| Author: | John Killin [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
George, I happen to be working on a Silvertone archtop now. The shape of your headstock looks the same as mine so I'm thinking they were both made by Kay. Attachment: Silvertone Body.jpg The neck joint on mine is a dovetail, but its really tight. When I went to steam the neck off, I couldn't find the pocket. My fingerboard was warped into a ski jump at the end so I decided to remove it. Attachment: Fretboard removed.jpg The neck is a really tight fit in the pocket. Attachment: Neck Joint WO Fretboard.jpg This guitar was my grandmothers. The story goes that at some point the guitar was resting on a couch and somebody sat on it. Her brother fixed it for her, but it was never the same. He had screwed two screws through the fret board. When I removed the screws the neck was on there pretty solid so I'm thinking he possibly held it in place while the glue set. There is also a screw at the heel. Attachment: Neck Joint.jpg Attachment: Neck Joint Screw.jpg I'm not sure if this screw is from the original repair or if it was done at the factory. Good luck on your reset. John |
|
| Author: | George L [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Great pics, John! That is indeed a tight fitting joint and with a screw in the heel like that--yikes! I will take a close look at mine before I break out the steam generator. Yeah, Silvertone, Kay, Harmony...seems like these things were sold with many different names on them. The logo appears to have been silk screened (or some similar process) on the headstock. Not much at risk, value wise, so maybe I'll replace that with something personal. I don't know. Mine is semi-playable as-is, but a little adjustment should make it quite nice. We'll see. Thanks again for all the replies, |
|
| Author: | John Killin [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Can you tell if there clearcoat over the silk screen? I plan on redoing the Silvertone logo but cant decide if I'm going to do a decal or use a stencil and paint it. My guess is that the silk screen was done after the clearcoat was applied. I remember a Harmony uke I had when I was a kid that was done that way. One issue I have with mine is every one in the family that was around remembers things a bit differently. My mom and uncle keep saying the Silvertone went down in between the tuners. I think the logo you have on your headstock is probably what mine had. |
|
| Author: | George L [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
John, I'm not a finish expert, but it looks to me like the silk screen is on top. |
|
| Author: | George L [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Pulled the neck this afternoon. It's a dovetail and was affixed with hot hide glue. Had a pretty substantial shim jammed in along one side. I guess that's one way to build guitars faster. The joint on mine was not as tightly fitted as yours, John. Still took a while to get it to let loose. I've only removed a few necks, but this one took longer than any of the others that I've done. Probably about 10 minutes and a half dozen blasts, each lasting between 5 - 15 seconds. Anyway, it's off and there's no damage to the finish...    
|
|
| Author: | cphanna [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Good going, George! This is going to be very cool! |
|
| Author: | Chris Pile [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Doing great there, George. No worries on the shims.... I've worked on more than one Gibson with gaps in the neck joint big enough to fill with a quart of glue. Only there was about a tablespoonfull.... |
|
| Author: | George L [ Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Worked the neck into a better angle. Gluing things back up tonight. Will do a re-fret as part of the setup. Used an upside down basket to cobble together this little one-off clamping platform thingy. This gave me some good ideas about making an actual workstation/jig. George :-) 
|
|
| Author: | cphanna [ Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
This is moving right along for you, George. I'm watching. In fact, I'm watching eagerly. Please follow up when it's fretted and strung up. Congratulations. |
|
| Author: | John Killin [ Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Wow George, you are working quick. Great job. Its nice to see that that screw wasn't part of the original design. I was thinking it might have been because of the way my neck joint was done and the fact that the wood is so soft. With the pocket so tight I was thinking maybe they got it close then finished it off with the screw. Are you going to be doing a compression fret on this one since it has a non adjustable truss rod. I'm tempted since I have my fret board off to install an adjustable truss rod. Your looks great. Keep the updates coming. |
|
| Author: | dzsmith [ Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Nice clean job, George! I look forward to seeing the finished pictures. |
|
| Author: | George L [ Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
It was going fast because I had a little break in my schedule. Getting busy again, so it may be a while before I get back at this project. I'm going to try my hand at a compression fret job. Never done one before, so this will fall under the heading "experimental." |
|
| Author: | cphanna [ Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Dang, George. Don't keep us on pins and needles. There is an entire sub-culture of arch top fans out here watching your thread. I count myself among the most eager of them. ...But don't rush, either. We will bide our time, confident that you will show us an excellent outcome as soon as you can. |
|
| Author: | George L [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Well, last weekend I finally got around to refretting the guitar and stringing it up. The geometry is indeed improved and all seemed well and good. I decided to let it sit for the week, tuned to pitch, before finishing the set up. Sadly, as I inspected the guitar this morning, I discovered a slight gap at the back of the heel, just as there had been when the guitar was given to me. Hmm.. curious. it seems there is something more about this dovetail that needs addressing. The joint was well-fitted and shimmed up tightly before I glued things back up, so I'm not sure what is going on. This could be a clue about the screw you uncovered, John. Perhaps the wood that was used to make these necks (looks like poplar, maybe?) is a bit soft and the tenon compresses under tension, allowing the heel to lift? I don't know. Anyway, I yanked the neck again this morning and will be doing some tinkering. It was a free guitar that was unplayable and one that has no great monetary value, so I see no harm in experimenting. It's fun and every time I tackle something like this I learn new things. Still very busy with work, but I will report back later. |
|
| Author: | cphanna [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
George, I am such a fan of this thread and what you are doing. You'll figure it out. Sorry for the setback but you'll get it worked out. You will identify the problem and set it to rights once and for all. I will follow along until you do. I'm rooting for you. It's a nice archtop worthy of being in perfect playing condition. Please keep us in the loop as you bring it to that point. Patrick |
|
| Author: | John Killin [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
George, That stinks on the gap at the heel. I'm sure you'll figure it out. The wood on my neck is soft. I think you are right that it is poplar. I read somewhere about what was called a "quick reset" that was done on these. That was where they cut the neck at the tenon leaving the fretboard glued to the body. It would then be flossed and the neck reattached like a butt joint with a screw similar to what I found on mine. I was almost thinking that that is what I had in my hands. Its possible that mine was doing something similar to yours and that screw was added to correct it. There is definitely some finish damage at the neck joint on mine that looks like some repair effort was taken. I've been told that that was done at the time of the repair work from the "sitting incident." I still haven't pulled my neck off yet to have a look. I just mixed up a batch of hide glue to start tackling the top crack repairs. I'll keep watching this thread for updates. let me know if you want any more pictures or need me to compare what I have to what you are looking at. John |
|
| Author: | johnparchem [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
George that looks like a fun project. Good luck getting the dove tail joint to fit. |
|
| Author: | WudWerkr [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
I have one almost Identical to that one in my " Restoration Lineup" Looking forward to it as well . |
|
| Author: | George L [ Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Okay, I finally put this guitar back together. The joint was tight, tight, tight before glue up and there was no gap at the heel when the clamps were removed. After being strung up for a couple of days--boom--the gap at the heel is back, so there is definitely something funky going on in the neck joint. The good news is that despite this little gap, my reset has greatly improved the action, dropping the low E from 13/64 to 7/64 at the 12th fret. It still feels a little awkward to play due to there being too much relief, which I have failed to remedy through my re-fretting efforts. I'm choosing to believe that it's the wiggly-wobbly, wishy-washy neck that's at fault here and not my skills. :-) Anyway, it's a lot more fun to play now than it was before. I call that a success! I've included a link to a short clip of the guitar in action (by a less than accomplished guitarist) and one final beauty shot. George :-) Vimeo link: https://vimeo.com/111889167 
|
|
| Author: | Chris Pile [ Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silvertone Archtop |
Ya done good, George! |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|