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Zeke's OM guitar shaped wood
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Author:  ZekeM [ Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Zeke's OM guitar shaped wood
Ok I'll go ahead and jump in first. I've done 1 1/2 builds so by the time this is finished it will be number 3. Still sorting out the details but i will be making an OM sized guitar the shape is my own design, though brad Daniels has since informe me it looks a lot like his first GA. Anyhow I'm thinking englemann top with curly maple back and sides with ebony and blood wood appointments. That is subject to change between now and when the sawdust starts flying. I look forward to the competition and wish the best of luck to all the contestants especially first timers! LET'S DO THIS THING!!!!!!
Author:  WudWerkr [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Looking forward to your work !
Author:  ZekeM [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Thanks Jim. I really appreciate you organizing this and getting it rolling. I think it's really going to help encourage newer builders. [:Y:]
Author:  ZekeM [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Welp, decided to try and start today and had a mishap. Trying to bend the sides and one of them got a nice split. Its about halfway through vertically. This is a first. The wood is pretty figured and it split right down one of the "curls". [headinwall]

So maybe i can fix it. But maybe not. This could result in a major change in plans. Ive got a sweet piece of Indo that I have put away for a special build sometime in the future. I may end up doing the back and sides out of this instead of maple. We will have to see how the attempt to repair goes. Anyone have any great ideas on how to salvage the side? I guess ill try some glue but I have a feeling that it wont bend very well afterwards.

[headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall]
Image

It took all I had to not break it in half and then destroy my hot pipe by smashing it on the floor over and over and over and over. I tend to have anger issues sometimes. Im working on it though. I just walked away. Hopefully its fixable.
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Zeke, sorry to hear about the failed side. Can the rest of us learn from you? What kind of wood was it? Thickness? How wet, etc.?

Doug
Author:  ZekeM [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Yes I hope everyone can learn. It is big leaf curly maple, .085" thick and it was pretty wet at the time. I believe it was the excess water that led to the separation of the fibers. I really wasnt applying too much pressure when it happened so this must have been the culprit. Next time I will go easier on the water. Also I've ordered some super soft 2 and I'm going to give it a try. I've glued the split back together and I'm going to try bending again once the ss2 arrives. I've also done some measurements and I believe that if I can't bend the glued area that it is far enough up the side I can cut it off and make a florentine cutaway. Maybe

If anyone has information about using ss2 I'd appreciate some thoughts or suggestions.
Author:  dazzer [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Zeke sorry to see you had a side that's cracked :(

Hopefully you can rescue it :) - good luck on your build :)

All the best
Dave
Author:  motojerbear [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Hang in there Zeke! Sorry to hear about your mishap so early in the build.
Your enthusiasm and drive are an inspiration to us other newbies [:Y:] Keep on keepin' on!

jeremy
Author:  ZekeM [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Thanks guys. Don't worry this little mishap won't stop me. "Tis but a flesh wound". I just hope my mistake will help others to be a little more careful. I've noticed I'm not the only one doing maple so everyone BE CAREFUL. I dont want anyone else joining my split sides club. It's exclusive and I'm not giving out memberships at this time so stay out! :)
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
ZekeM wrote:
If anyone has information about using ss2 I'd appreciate some thoughts or suggestions.


It's easy to use. Spray it on the sides, let it soak in for 12-24 hours, then bend. I will usually spray it on before bed and bend the next evening. With curly wood, you want it to be pretty dry when bending. The extra water was more than likely the issue with your crack, but it could have just been a bad piece of wood. I bend with a machine, but I mostly bend dry unless I am using SSII. If I am using SSII, that will be the only moisture I add.
Author:  ZekeM [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Thanks for the info tony. How saturated do you get the wood with the ss2? Just spray on a light mist or make sure the surface is thoroughly coated?

See I was having some trouble getting the sides to bend and they were scorching a little so I added water and then some more water and then just a little more and that's when she split. Darn maple! I'm planning on building or buying a bending machine in the near future. Having support on both sides of the wood while bending seems like a major advantage.
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Make sure to get the wood wet, but it should not be dripping. By the next night when you bend, it should look like you misted it with water, not soaked it.

If you are scorching the wood, the iron is probably too hot. Do you have a means of checking the temp of the bending iron's surface? I have never used an iron, so I don't recall the exact temps you should be using, but you don't want to go above 400*F if I recall. Hopefully some of the more iron savvy members will jump in here and confirm or refute my numbers. There are some good videos on YouTube of people bending with an iron. Have you watched any to pick up the proper technique?
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Zeke you just cost me $50 to buy some SSII (crazy shipping to Canada with the sled dogs and all) but hopefully saved me $100 by helping save my sides. I am getting more nervous about that cutaway on my bass.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
dbalzer wrote:
Zeke you just cost me $50 to buy some SSII (crazy shipping to Canada with the sled dogs and all) but hopefully saved me $100 by helping save my sides. I am getting more nervous about that cutaway on my bass.
I'm wondering if this product would work like SSII? http://www.amwoodinc.com/productDetail. ... kU0Q%3d%3d I'll email A&M and ask them. I'll let you know what they say.

Alex
Author:  ZekeM [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Tony I don't have anything to check the temp of the iron. I believe it was the correct temp because the water just danced on the surface of the pipe. I've bent rosewood on it before with absolutely no issues and I've bent some curly maple without this problem. For some reason this particular set of sides just did not want to flex. They started scorching because I was leaving it in one place for a while trying to get some flex. I noticed the scorching and started adding water. It's some tricky wood. Hopefully the SSII will help. I appreciate the info.

Sorry I cost you $50 Doug but hopefully it will spare your wood! I'm paying $30 for mine (I got a quart). Like alex pointed out there are similar products available but I've heard SSII is good stuff and I haven't heard anything about the others so I played it safe and got the name rand stuff.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
I got a quick reply from A&M. Here is what they said: "Hi Alex, this looks like a very similar product to ours. I don’t know if the formula’s the same. I have had other guitar builders use our product in this way with success. Our veneer softener can be diluted up to 1:1 with water." Hopefully this can help any Canucks out there. I'll be taking a drive there before I bend any sides.

Alex
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
0.085" may be a little thick for a side, although many use that thickness regularly. Thinner definitely bends much easier.
Author:  ZekeM [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
On my first two builds my sides were thicker than that. I thought .085 was on the thin side. Could you shed some light as to some better numbers for side thickness.
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Could just be an ornery set of maple. I bend my sides anywhere from .090" for straight grained walnut to as thin as .070" for a mean set of bubinga I bent for a friend.
Author:  ZekeM [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Tony_in_NYC wrote:
Could just be an ornery set of maple. I bend my sides anywhere from .090" for straight grained walnut to as thin as .070" for a mean set of bubinga I bent for a friend.


I believe you are correct. Stupid piece of wood :). I cut some bindings off of the same piece and have been having a fit with those as well (they are for my #2 guitar). Hopefully that ss2 will get here soon so I can make some progress on both guitars.
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
I usually shoot for 0.06" if I expect difficulty bending, although with maple it should be fine at 0.08". My second was walnut, and the sides were probably 0.11" and bent OK. (That was before I got a drum sander, and I was using a handheld belt sander and ROS to thickness my backs & sides. It probably has at least 0.03" variation in the thickness.)

Remember that the stiffness is proportional to the square of the thickness, so a little thinner can be much more flexible.
Author:  ZekeM [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Alright the supersoft II just arrived. I have my sides and bindings soaked and waiting. Once they appear dry it says it should be ready so maybe tonight ill be able to report back with the results. Oh and a word of caution if you spray this stuff and have a slick floor with sawdust on it you WILL slip and fall. oops_sign

Image

Image
Author:  ZekeM [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
SSII worked like magic on the bindings. I finished bending them to shape without even heating them. I just used the finished box as a guide and taped them into the binding channel to set up. Now the sides on the other hand are still a pain in my...... Well after some struggling I got the one I started last week finished. Its clamped up in the mold setting up. It bent easier than last time but still was a struggle. I believe it must just be a stubborn piece of wood. Also next time I do curly maple im gonna go a little thinner on the sides. Maybe Ill shoot for .07 or so. I am reccomending that Doug and the rest of the people building with curly maple shoot for that mark to be on the safe side. The weather here is getting a little nasty, when I went to check outside my car was covered in ice so I made the decision to call it a night. I sprayed some more SSII on the remaining side and will let it really soak in until tomorrow afternoon. Maybe that extra time will help it loosen up a bit more. Ill be sure to let everyone know what the results are with tomorrows bend.
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
Thanks for sharing all of this Zeke. Good to learn from your experience. I'm stuck in idle waiting for delivery of items to finish up my thickness sander, SSII, etc. Until it all arrives my project consists of surfing OLF.
Author:  ZekeM [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Zeke's OM Build
dbalzer wrote:
Thanks for sharing all of this Zeke. Good to learn from your experience. I'm stuck in idle waiting for delivery of items to finish up my thickness sander, SSII, etc. Until it all arrives my project consists of surfing OLF.


No problem doug. I see this challenge more as a learning experience than anything. Good motivator to get out there in the shop and cut up some wood. Its more of a chance to learn and share what we learn IMO. Good luck with the thickness sander. My first two builds were planed and scraped down by hand and it took forever. That probably took longer than any other part of the build. Now I got a little jet 10 20 sander and I can thickness much more accurately in no time. Definitely a good tool to have. [:Y:]
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