Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Help needed shaping headstock!

Do not do the Dremel attachment for routing for the binding, too little power an d you will not be happy with the result. Lots of options available using a trim router, search the archive here or google the web. As the Padma says band saw the shape of the peg head then finesse by sanding. Bend the overlay to match the shape and you are ready to glue it on. Make sure the area where the tuners will be mounted is flat. Why not just leave it flat?

Fred

I would do the roughing out with u-gouges, then spindle sander

Doug, I don't know anything about Bouzoukis but it ,
Looks like your neck at the nut area had some kind of defect....what's going on there? I'm probably just seeing it wrong. My sight gets worse every year!

ahhh, figured it was something like that! Looks like a neat instrument. You're doing amazing work! How is your son enjoying his award-winning guitar?

Author:	Doug Balzer [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:36 am ]
Post subject:	Help needed shaping headstock!
So I'm about to build the neck for my first bouzouki and would like to flare the end as in the pic below. Does anyone know of an online tutorial it description of process for this? I'm thinking so just using a StewMac Dremel binding jig?? BTW, I also attached a few pics of the bouzouki in process

Author:	the Padma [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Flair??? Binding Jig??? Sorry me don't quite get your question? To cut the upward flair, band saw. To cut the rabbit, a hand held purfle cutting knife. Only takes a few min. to make one. Are you referring to the SM Dremel attachment for cutting rabbits or binding channels as a "binding jig"? If so, that will also work best with their carbide bit and several passes...but just...it is pushing the dremel to its max.

Author:	Fred Tellier [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Do not do the Dremel attachment for routing for the binding, too little power an d you will not be happy with the result. Lots of options available using a trim router, search the archive here or google the web. As the Padma says band saw the shape of the peg head then finesse by sanding. Bend the overlay to match the shape and you are ready to glue it on. Make sure the area where the tuners will be mounted is flat. Why not just leave it flat? Fred

Author:	Doug Balzer [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Fred Tellier wrote: Do not do the Dremel attachment for routing for the binding, too little power an d you will not be happy with the result. Lots of options available using a trim router, search the archive here or google the web. As the Padma says band saw the shape of the peg head then finesse by sanding. Bend the overlay to match the shape and you are ready to glue it on. Make sure the area where the tuners will be mounted is flat. Why not just leave it flat? Fred Fred, I like the look of the headstock for an Irish Bouzouki...something a little more interesting perhaps. I am primarily concerned with cutting a good channel for the binding on the inside curve of the flare so a trim router might not be my best solution. Perhaps a combination of a trim router and then cut the inside curve by hand using a perf cutter, as per Padma's suggestion?

Author:	Fred Tellier [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
I think that it can be done with a trim router but I might be tempted to cut the overlay to binding size before the glue up. I would make a rounded shoe for the trim router like a piece of dowel cut in half and attached to the normal base surface, as long as the radius is less than the radius of the peg head and you hold the router straight it should do the job. Fred

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Author:	the Padma [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Ya, could be done did with a trim router...but gee thats a lot of flatulating around jigging it all up...A hand held pufle cutter will do the job in a few min. (batteries not included, but then you don't need them anyways) . Bear in mind that the rabbit you be cuttin is a compound curve...no big problem by hand...but an issue for jigging up a trim router. Them be great on flat surfaces but don't understand 3d to well. Also you may wanna run your binding a few thou over size and glue it down into place with a stretchie type rubber cuz its gonna twist a bit on a compound curved rabbit...although not all that much in this case. But be aware of it. Bend the more pronounced curve on a pipe and flex and bind the other into place when gluing...As the curves are not too pronounced this should work. Me suggest this approach cuz most dudes really mess up big time when trying to bend 3D compounded banding. Turning a cheap 1/2 inch chisel into a scraper will also be helpful in cleaning out the rabbit. Me really don't get it why so many of todays builders have bought the program that machines are the only way to do everything...Yup they are great for mass production...but a real pain in the ask me no questions for things like this and speaks volumes about the lack of confidence that the system has bread/programed in our being so as to sell us more junk machines. And don't go be thinkin that I, me, ?adma be some sort of purist...me gotts every vice known to man and a shop full of every banchie screaming, e-lectrical suckin, piece of junk out there....Well almost....me don't gotts no e-lectical toofs brush...and don't wants one ether. Thus spaketh ?adma blessings

Author:	nyazzip [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
I would do the roughing out with u-gouges, then spindle sander

Author:	the Padma [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
nyazzip wrote: I would do the roughing out with u-gouges, then spindle sander Well boy, Me accord you your privilege to flow your insanity. Cutting a rabbit is thousands of years old...and don't take nothin more than a blade and a guide block... dead simple...time proven and effective. Hundreds of designs out there... Of course you can even buy a solid brass, gold plated adjustable purfle cutter for that matter. But then you'd have to go to school to learn how to use it properly.

Author:	nyazzip [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
I was referring to shaping the headstock...

Author:	cphanna [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Doug, I don't quite understand your question, either. By "flaring" are you asking how to vary the thickness of your headstock, as in this photo? Like where it gets thicker at the top-most end? Or the width? I suspect you are asking about flaring the thickness. If that's true, then it appears to me that the builder of the headstock in your photo shaped the basic thickness contours with scrapers, files, sanding, whatever, and THEN glued the face plate laminates down. That would be a simple sculptural process to get the main wood prepared and then maybe heat bending the head plate to the same curved shape before gluing it down. After that, a band saw establishes the shape of the peg head. Then sanding all the nuances. Etc. etc. Is that what you were asking? Patrick

Author:	cphanna [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Hey, Doug, I stepped back for a few minutes and had another thought: I don't know of a tutorial, but I have a good hunch how the headstock thickness was flared in the picture that you posted. Note that there is still some extra neck material on the far side of the neck, below the nut area. If this neck were turned up on that far edge, allowing that far edge to rest on a tool table (such as a spindle sander table), then the operator could gently move the front of the headstock back and forth across the sanding drum until the desired flare is achieved. Then glue down a face plate, bent to the same curve. Then cut the shape of the headstock (when viewed from the front). And so on, and so forth. It would be simple with a spindle sander. Also simple with a card scraper, but a bit more tedious. But who cares? You could do it with a card scraper and some patience. Good luck with it, and let us know how it goes. Patrick

Author:	the Padma [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Getting the curved profile is easy, Cutting the rabbit is also easy. Just wait till you get to the miters on that banding simply because you ain't got a single straight edge to relate to on the side pieces and only one plane on the 3 remaining piece. Think about it. Suggest you do the top piece first then the sides and then the last two curves. This head stock treatment is quite beautiful and somewhat beyond most nubees skills....but still possible...just run some extra banding. In fact taking another look at the banding ...it looks square...not flat! Square banding will greatly reduce the twisting that could arise from bending compound curves. Another tip in banding is to break the edge of the banding that is getting glued into the rabbit. Often me runs square banding because of the serpentine edges to my builds and then scrape off the proud face. Scrapping is a lot easier than trying to glue a twist into a rabbit.

Author:	Bob Shanklin [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Cut and shape the overlay then cut the purfling channels before bending the overlay while it is flat. Align the overlay with small stop blocks before glueing, then trim headstock to match overlay. Several ways to skin the cat. Bob

Author:	Doug Balzer [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Hey thanks everyone. I think I have a plan now....I'll post the progress later.

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Author:	Doug Balzer [ Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Thanks for the input guys. Your suggestions helped me formulate a plan that I am pretty pleased with. The journey is shown below.

Author:	Beth Mayer [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Doug, I don't know anything about Bouzoukis but it , Looks like your neck at the nut area had some kind of defect....what's going on there? I'm probably just seeing it wrong. My sight gets worse every year!

Author:	Doug Balzer [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Beth Mayer wrote: Doug, I don't know anything about Bouzoukis but it , Looks like your neck at the nut area had some kind of defect....what's going on there? I'm probably just seeing it wrong. My sight gets worse every year! Beth, It shall all get carved away when I shape the neck. The fretboard at the nut is quite narrow on a 'zouk.

Author:	Beth Mayer [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
ahhh, figured it was something like that! Looks like a neat instrument. You're doing amazing work! How is your son enjoying his award-winning guitar?

Author:	Nick Royle [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Love those purfs! Hand-stitched!

Author:	Doug Balzer [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help needed shaping headstock!
Beth Mayer wrote: ahhh, figured it was something like that! Looks like a neat instrument. You're doing amazing work! How is your son enjoying his award-winning guitar? Thanks Beth. Both of my sons are enjoying the guitars as well as the trumpet and saxophone. Has anyone ever built a sax?