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An alternate way of building the F5 http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10128&t=28238	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Haans [ Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:	An alternate way of building the F5
I've had a few "sharp tacks" that have discovered my way of building an F5, and have asked me if I would reveal my building style. Rather than explain it 6 times, I've decided that since I'm rather retired from building mandolins I would tell "all". So, hang on to your hats... My building starts with the ribs. I build on an inside mould. The blocks are screwed on and the ribs are bent and glue onto the blocks. Each rib is bent, and glued on and clamped with cauls. I cover the outsied of the seams with cyano and accelerate to speed things up. Lastly, the top kerfing is glued on. When it's dry, the top of the kerfing is leveled on a sanding board.

Author:	Haans [ Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
I've skipped over the top and gone straight to the back, but if you look at the mini pin router thread, it won't take long to realize that I have bound the plate before glueing on the ribs. Top and back are basically the same except for graduations, tone bars and ff holes. So, here are some photos of the start of doing the back. First, the top has been glued on the ribs and the unit taken out of the mould. The neck dovetail has been fit and the scroll slot is cut. I like to use a 1/8" or 3/16" 10-14 tooth blade to do this kind of work.The bottom kerfing is glued on and the surface is leveled on the sanding board. Next, the back is roughly sawed out and clamped in place. A line is scribed around the ribs onto the back. Next the back is sawed right at the line. I split the line with the blade. The back is tack glued to the ribs. More tomorrow...

Author:	Joe Sustaire [ Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Wow, how cool Haans! I've never built a mandolin, but I can tell this is some good info! Very generous, Joe

Author:	Dave Stewart [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Great stuff Haans.... kind of like a violin construction (HHG blocks to an inside mold, glue sides, line, break blocks and remove mold). Looking forward to more.

Author:	Haans [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Thanks Joe and Dave! I suppose if I was a total capitalist I would have written a book. Aside from the usual typos and gramaticals, I should correct a sequence mistake. The dovetail and scroll slot is cut after the bottom kerfing, ribs and blocks are leveled on the sanding board. You can find the dovetail cutting procedure elsewhere on this forum.

Author:	Chris Oliver [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Thanks again Hans. I've been in the shop carving an A top that I need to get done. I really can't wait to get started on my f's using your methods... after all my other projects. I asked for the book several months ago... bet you didn't know you would be writing it as a collection of pm's and posts.

Author:	Haans [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Well Chris as John Koerner sang..."Everybody's in it for the money", 'cept I guess John and me sorta. I don't mind givin' it away because I don't need it anymore and by itself, won't make a great mandolin. Might not even work for you...don't blame me if it doesn't! Here's the next part... This is the router setup I use. It is a Stew-Mac router-binder thing. set into the router plate with a PC trimmer underneath. Here we are routing a ledge on 3 mandolins, the more fancy the trim, the more passes. Sharpen a small flat screwdriver to an icepick and flatten one edge all the way up. This is used to poke holes into the maple. Connect the dots and saw that out.

Author:	Haans [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Now, trace the scroll on with the template and saw it all out close. Saw the scroll as close as you can get it. Sand it smooth on a 2" drum or your OSS and finish with small files and needle rasps. Check for fit on the rim and trim as needed. Finally, bind using Weldon 16, a slurry of ivoroid/acetone mud for the joints, and a heat gun for the tight curves. Set aside overnight. Here is the scroll from the inside. We'll pick up right here tomorrow or Monday.

Author:	Haans [ Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Or Tuesday... A cutoff was saved from the back scrap and used to make this curly-Q. I press it in and glue with cyano. After sanding the filler and the binding flat with a D/A, a 3/16" line is scribed around the rim and then a pencil line is drawn into that scribe. Her is the setup I use for final contouring. I use 40 grit on the maple, and the downdraft sanding table sucks up all the dust. Next I use a riffler with safe edges ground on it to contour the scroll and finish up with sandpaper 80-150 grit. Then the whole outside of the plate is sanded to 150.

Author:	Chris Oliver [ Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Nice (beads of sweat forming on brow), can't wait for the next episode!

Author:	Haans [ Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
That's as far as I go on the outside for now. On the inside, to graduate, I start with this 40 grit grinding wheel on the drill press and graduate close to the final measurements. I make use of lights thru the top to even everything out. Doesn't work well with sugar maple as it is so dense, and the you cannot guage thickness from it on any maple. It just serves to even things out a bit. When it's graduated and fine sanded to my liking, It's all set to glue up. That's about it, but if you have any questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them. Let me say that doing things this way is very methodical, and precision and tolerances are critical for a good outcome. It does work though, and I have built over 250 mandolins and mandolas this way.

Author:	Haans [ Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Well Chris, you didn't have to wait long.

Author:	Chris Oliver [ Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Hans, that was fast, I still had popcorn left... How many mando's had you built before you started cutting the swoop on the inside of the neckblock? Did you notice any difference in overall sound of the instruments?

Author:	Haans [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Chris, I started doing it when I started building Loar copies. Before that I was leaving them straight and using maple for the blocks. Made no difference that anyone could discern. I have to say that I have tried building mandolins just about every way possible as far as shapes, and as long as you stick to the basic numbers, the only thing that changes the tone is the top and back materials. However, there is a tonal difference between A's and F's.

Author:	Darrel Friesen [ Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Thanks for the great information Haans. I haven't built a mando yet but plan to in the future. I'll definitely be referring to your techniques.

Author:	DannyV [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Haans, Thanks so much for taking the time to put this all together and share it with us. An "F" is most defiantly in the future for me. I'll patiently be awaiting the top tuning class. BTW, I took your advice and upgraded my discount tail piece on my "A" and replaced it with a James. That will be my first choice for any future builds that's for sure. What's your tuners of choice? Being my first build I cheaped out on hardware which was a mistake. Thanks Again, Danny

Author:	the Padma [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Haans wrote: ...I've decided that since I'm rather retired from building mandolins .... Was dis talk about being "retired" all about? Say it ain't true. Say you just pullin our leg. blessings be Padma

Author:	Haans [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: An alternate way of building the F5
Danny, I liked the Stew-Mac Elites or whatever they call them now...I'm not much for "big buck" stuff. ole buddy, it is so. I've retired from building mandolins full time. If I feel like building one I will, but after building over 250 as a job, I've returned to building as a hobby. Much better this way. I can build what I want when I want and not be "under the gun" all the time. Soon as I finish these last 5 mandolins, I'm done for a time. I'm sick of 'em. I'll build guitars for a while...

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