Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey all, hope this is the appropriate forum.
So, I'm venturing into picking up guitar, and luthier'ing.
I was dabbling a bit with a guitar last year but started getting frustrated learning chords due to my finger size. Looking around I found wide nut necks, specifically Big Lou.
Fast forward, after a couple life changes since, I ended up buying a Squire Strat with the intention of fitting a 1 7/8" Big Lou neck.
I got the neck, and of course it's not a drop in swap, the heel is bigger than the pocket.
Big Lou's site says if it's too big, sand down the low E side, but, centering the old heel on new seems a hair under 1/16 on either side needs to come off.
I would think it would be better to remove equal amounts from both sides to keep the neck properly centered and inline, no?
It also seems to be of debate, after searching, is fitting heel to pocket, or pocket to heal, pending resale value of either. Resale of either matter to me, but the heel will be much easier for me to sand.
I'm starting to wish I'd just bought a Big Lou guitar, but it'll be fun and I dig DIY, and getting a feel for building another guitar.
Seems there should be some other things to be mindful of while fitting the neck as well.
Any input, thoughts, suggestions appreciated.
Thanks!

I'd never heard of big lou guitars before. But if it was mine I'd probably rout the neck pocket of the body of your squier rather than fiddle with taking material off of the neck itself. I think you'd end up with a much more challenging and involved job trying to reshape a neck, shaving 1/16" off either side, than you would simply routing the pocket to fit the new neck. Not to mention you'd end up losing the wide neck, which is what you were hoping for to begin with, and you'd have to refret it.

Something to consider if resale really is a concern, whatever cachet the name Squier may have as a familiar brand will be gone once you put a different neck on the body. So, even executed perfectly what you're proposing will probably affect the resale however you go about it. But if you bought the guitar new the reality is that bringing it home and playing it affects resale value too. The good news here is that the gear you have is not a crazy investment to experiment with this kind of thing. But if you are worried about getting your money back out of it, it might be better to sell off the Squier, and see if you can exchange the neck for a completed guitar from Big Lou. Not near as fun though.

Good luck!

Cutting the neck will require adding finish, cutting the pocket does not.....

Properly done the pocket should be cut IMHO.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Thor, first welcome to the forum and to guitar playing. I have a number of somewhat random thoughts on this - let me express them and remember that these are just one person's opinion. Conor and Brian have both given you good advice.

First, one of Leo Fender's true genius's was standardizing everything on his guitars. They are quite literally assembly line produced, and if a manufacturer adheres to Fenders specifications ANY neck will fit ANY body. There is a weird little quirk between tele's and strat's, but it doesn't matter if a neck was made in the Corona plant or Mexico or Seattle or China. It will fit and work. (I'll come back to this).

Second, you are new to guitars and finding it hard to play. Yes they are, I've been working at it for 50 years and they are still hard to play. It is very tempting to want to modify the whole design to make it easier - I'll argue against that if it is remotely possible to play a standard configuration. If you learn on a modified guitar you will always play a modified guitar - that means that Big Lou will be your companion for life. Lots of people with fat fingers and skinny fingers and long fingers and short fingers play guitars with 1-11/16 wide nuts - maybe you can force yourself to learn.

If you do decide to change the neck, then think carefully about the geometry. The standard Fender 1-11/16 neck will have the outside strings about 1/8 from the edge of the fretboard - they should remain there on your new neck. Standard Fender bridges are 2-5/32 spacing - that means the string fan out as they go from nut to bridge - make sure they will do that on your new neck. If one of the outside strings is closer to the edge you risk pulling it off, if it is farther from the edge it will be harder to fret. That means the new neck should be centered to the body and must not have any side to side angle (ie the neck centerline must be perfectly on the body centerline). I check that by laying a straightedge on each side of the neck. Something like this, I want exactly the same spacing at each side of the bridge.



While Brian suggest cutting the pocket, I think I would cut the neck (but not the fretboard). The neck is going to be too wide at the 16th fret (body joint) but you want to keep that fretboard width. If you widen the pocket you will have a ridge between the body and the neck. Yes, you are going to have to fix some finish - find out from Big Lou what they use (oil, lacquer, something else) and repair it on your neck (if its nitro just buy a rattle can and shoot it over the neck heel).

One thing to be really careful of is not to move the neck into or out of the body any amount. The 16th fret should be at the joint - the neck should sit snugly against the end of the pocket. Also you want the overstand and angle to remain the same - normally the outside edge of the fretboard is 3/8 proud of the top and the f/b parallels the top. Once you get the neck into the pocket you will need to do the normal setup adjustments - relief, nut and 12th fret action, intonation. We can help you with this.

So, short story, think carefully about whether you want to go ahead with this. If you do, decide whether you want to modify the neck or the body (or send the neck back and get one built to Fender's specs). Maintain the geometry carefully - both with respect to the center line and the angle and depth. Measure everything multiple times and ask here if you have any questions. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Your post just got me thinking Freeman. I think you touched in this but to be clear, just because the physical dimensions end up wider on “big Lou” won’t necessarily equate to wider string spacing which is what Thor is probably looking for. To make this new neck really work well he’ll likely need a bridge with wider string spacing than what is already on the squier. Which may mean more routing in the body as well. If string spacing isn’t addressed at the bridge as well as at the nut chances are Thor will end up with a wide neck with a ton of real estate on either side of the e strings.

I agree with your comments Freeman about the challenge of playing guitar. When I talk with my guitar students about the physical challenges of playing an instrument I’m always reminded of great big bluegrass mandolin players, they play like lightning with no space at all. Also I remember this “homeless” man who came into the music store I worked at. I assume he had some kind of accident, on both hands he had no fingers beyond the first knuckle, only thumbs. He picked up a guitar tuned it to an open chord and started playing. So in my experience there aren’t very many physical challenges that can’t be overcome with a little determination. And at the end you can walk into any music store and explore all of the wonderful instruments available to you.

In general when someone talks about wider necks, for example the difference between 1-11/16 and 1-3/4 (only 1/16) on acoustic guitars the spacing at the bridge is also increased, often by about 1/8, but that is not necessary. Wider spacing at the nut allows a little more room for your fretting fingers to not touch adjacent strings, at the bridge it is entirely different. Narrower spacing might be preferred by a flat picker who is moving rapidly between strings with her plectrum, while a finger style player might prefer a little more room to get her thumb and fingers between the strings.

Interestingly, Warmoth makes a superwide 1-7/8 neck

http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/Sup ... thPro.aspx

Look carefully at the heel, it is cut to fit a Fender spec pocket and the fretboard extends over the sides. They comment on the string spread being wider at the heel, but once again, I think it is designed for a normal bridge. So, as I said before, if Thor is certain he wants to do this, don't screw up the body, shave both sides of the neck to keep it centered, keep the old neck in case he decides to go back.

Thor, the reason I put that Warmoth link in is that while I am not familiar with Big Lou, I am very familiar with Warmoth. They make replacement necks for Fender style guitars that are actually licensed by Fender - screw them on and they work. I even think they are better quality than Fender, but lets not get into that. My point is that they do make several necks to convert Fenders to different scale length or configurations - I have to believe that if they make a 1-7/8 neck it works. Therefore, my suggestion is to look carefully at the neck pocket in their picture and make yours the same - it has been cut away on both sides to keep the neck centered and the fretboard overhangs the heel.

My $0.02:

I would trim the neck with a hand plane and chisel if you don't have a rabbet plane that can get into the corner between the neck & fingerboard.

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.