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| Neck set angle? http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=46699 |
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| Author: | md54 [ Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Neck set angle? |
Hi, I'm a life long guitar nut. Jazz player. I've always had an interest in guitar construction but never made one. Now I'm approaching retirement I'm thinking about having a go. I've always admired Abe Riviera's instruments. (Neck through construction). How do you get the neck set angle on that type of guitar? His bridges look a little higher than a Les Paul I think. Thanks for any help. Max Davison |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
Hey Max, Never done a neck-through, but I think you start with a thick piece of neck lumber and saw the neck angle. I've seen fellows laminate thin pieces together, but I don't consider that a real neck-through. Dan |
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| Author: | Freeman [ Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
Hi Max. welcome to the forum and to building a guitar. Let me recommend getting a copy of Melvyn Hiscock's book Make Your Own Electric Guitar for several reasons. First, it is a really good overview of everything involved in building a guitar - tools, materials, finishing, wiring. Second, he has a great section on design and particularly laying out the string plane relative to the top, bridge, pickups and other important parts of the guitar. Third, he shows the construction of three different styles of electric guitars - a set neck (Gibson style), a bolt on (Fender) and a thru neck (happens to be a bass but that really doesn't matter). For the thru neck he uses a laminated neck made out of three pieces of Maple 42 x 2-1/2 x 3/4 with some contrasting stripe. The 2-1/2 inch depth is enough to saw the neck angle relative to the body and the headstock relative to the neck. He says it has a "slight angle" at the body - again that comes from laying out the string plane and bridge, as well as any carving of the top. Hiscock's bass has a flat top which makes it quite a bit easier. Pictures that I've seen of Riviera's guitar look like they have fairly radically carved tops as well as being thru neck. You might want to find a set of LP plans and modify them as required - simply replace the set neck with the thru neck following Hiscock. I'll add that making a set neck has the advantage that you can futz the neck angle as you build - I've built several LP style guitars where I get the neck angle close, then refine it using the bridge before gluing it in place. With a thru neck you are pretty much committed to getting the design perfect from the start. |
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
My neck-throughs have no neck angle. I personally don't see the point in having one if it's just going to complicate the build. http://www.stuartkeithguitars.com/Molly.html I suppose someone could make a case for doing it but the only reason it might HAVE to be done is in the case of a sculpted body face...like a Les Paul or a classic semi-hollow body...which forces the neck to an angle. There's a world of respected electric guitars that are flat. |
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| Author: | md54 [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
Sorry guys. I was expecting an email to tell me of replies! Thanks for the above. A zero angle would be easier. I just wondered how you majicians do these things! I don't think Mr Riviera will be loosing any sleep over my attempts. I have several books on order for Christmas now! |
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| Author: | Sandywood [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
I agree with Stuart. My first build was a neck-though with no angled neck nor angled head and I'm glad. It was tuff enough for me to succeed without dealing with angles for no good reason. There are a lot of tasks that need to be done that require a great deal of accuracy and attention to detail and dealing with angles on the first attempt is just adding to the odds of blowing it IMO. My following Strat style neck-through had an angled head and Gibson scale length at the request of the owner and it wasn't a big deal to do that. I still haven't attempted one with angled head and neck. I looked at it has taking "steps" for learning and angles just weren't justified for my first steps. If your first does require them then I recommend getting the bridge/hardware you plan on using and draw it all out full scale. Questions such as how you're going to router the neck/fretboard to body transition, cut the truss-rod channel and many others should get you gathering a plan of attack for the methods you want to try. Different ways of doing things so it's good to know about them so you can attempt the ones that you feel will work for you. Lot of YouTube videos that may help you. I think if you can't draw it out with all the pertinent measurements and if you're not sure how you're going to make the needed cuts you're not ready. Lot's of little bits of info to gather before you start...do ya know the hole size and location for tuning machines?....can ya carve a nut and know what "nut action" is and how you're going to set it?...good to know this stuff before you start the sawing. You can't put the wood back and not all tuning machine holes are created equal but IMO they need to be as perfect as possible. IMO little things like chipped wood around the tuning machine holes is horrible. No excuse except sloppy work or just ignorance at play and there are a lot of areas that that kind of crap can ruin your build. I gathered info for many months and didn't make the first cut until I could build it in my head and having all the exact measurements down to the millimeter/thousandths. It paid off and a very fine first attempt is displayed in a display case in my shop. Since I spent over 50 years playing I know the scariest part of it all and it's not ruining a piece of wood...make sure safety is priority and good luck. I hope my opinions help you. |
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| Author: | William Bustard [ Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
I believe a neck angle is important; how many shims have been placed in Fender strat neck pockets over the years? One method of determining the taper which I have used in neck through construction was to: Subtract the thickness of the fingerboard at the nut; - plane back to the fret location to the point at which you want the "body' to join. The wood working method would be similar to making a tapered table leg. The tools you have available as well as the way you choose to approach the procedure are a consideration for research as well. A truss rod does help counter bowing problems but it is not its primary function, it shouldn't have to work too hard; problems or may arise because of the different stresses across the variations of the wood twisting for example. Using quarter sawn straight wood can help to keep it consistent and even the stress out. Neck angle is an important factor when designing guitars. WB |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
Quote: There's a world of respected electric guitars that are flat. Yeah, like Rickenbackers. However, an angled neck guitar will bring the neck closer to the players arm if they happen to carry extra poundage on the bay window.... Much easier to play that way. One thing we CANNOT change: The point between the nut and the saddle will always be a straight line. |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
I prefer an angled neck. I played an LP for many years, so it feels "right" to me. A traditional Gibson angled neck joint is a pain to do by hand. However, on a neck-through, there will not be the neck joint to deal with and as long as the geometries are work out, it could be fairly easy to construct with a neck angle. Dan |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
Here's my latest abomination. I made cardboard templates of the body and neck, Taped them together and adjusted the body outline, neck angle, and nut location to suit me. I had to jack the bridge up using a block to match the neck angle. Design your guitar to your liking, that's what a custom guitar is all about! Dan |
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| Author: | William Bustard [ Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
That is quite a lot of tilt back!what ever works- 3 or 4 degrees is a kind ball park- Ive seen some folks even make the going the other way on a classical I think. I was unaware and find it interesting that Ricks are flat and find it hard to believe.In that case the truss rod is of primary importance for sure. The bridge must be very close to the body, Ive never seen one Ill have to find one and take a look. Looking at various neck through designs I think some are tapered. Mayones make some nice looking neck throughs IMHO |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck set angle? |
Well, I know I'm late in replying to this thread, but here it goes. I'm currently building a neck-through bass for a friend's son. When I did the geometry, with the bridge I was using, it came out to about a half degree. Not much, but on a 26" neck (well, total finger board length - 34 inch scale 25.5" = 24th fret), it was over and eighth of an inch. A rule of thumb measurement I had heard once always stuck to my mind. One degree equals .017" (17 thou) per linear inch. As for the actual removing of stock, I used edge/belt sander. Mind you, you need a sizeable one, but it works like a charm. before gluing on the wings, just align your neck blank so that you remove the stock from the right areas and slowly remove the excess. Make sure your table is nice and square to the belt. |
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