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To glue frets or not glue frets
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=46635		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Van Savage [ Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  To glue frets or not glue frets
I have made my first neck and am about to fret it. It's a maple bolt on and I've applied the finish. Do y'all glue your frets? My only problem with gluing them is getting squeeze out on the fretboard which is already sprayed and finished. Is there a problem with just hammering them in without glue?
Thanks
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To glue frets or not glue frets
Glue is insurance and wood moves over time, an understatement and the instrument will be subjected to RH swings, gigging, rough handling, and heavy metal vomit music....:) I'd be gluing them.

PS: I like heavy metal vomit music too!

Since you finished the board already use a glue that cleans up with water such as Titebond original or HHG. CA is out of the question now with finish on the board. I believe that Fender would fret and then finish and the finish was removed from most of the frets in the fret leveling and dressing process.
Author:  Freeman [ Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To glue frets or not glue frets
Van, I didn't glue my first couple of necks and a couple of frets did raise up a little (probably my fretting technique but then, like you, I didn't have any at the time). I now glue my frets with three tiny drops of CA, assuming that if and when they are refretted the tech will use heat to pull the old ones. FWIW, I now press my frets in and have much better luck than hammering them.

Like Hesh says, you probably can't use CA at this point but if your board is unbound it might be possible to carefully wick a little thin super glue in from the ends. If there is any left on the outside you can probably remove that when you dress the fret ends. I would use a pipette like StewMac sells and their #10 glue.

The other choices would be a water soluble glue like hot hide. I also know that some people use shellac - I've never tried that.
Author:  dzsmith [ Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To glue frets or not glue frets
I use Titebond and clean up with a moist paper towel.
Run a small amount on the bottom of the tang.
When I apply a finish to a fretboard, I always do it prior to fretting.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To glue frets or not glue frets
I've hammered them in, pressed them in, glued them in with epoxy, Titebond, and hide glue. All valid and workable methods as long as your technique, materials, and equipment is up to par.

Frets can come out any number of ways, and I'm sure more will come to light as time goes by.
Author:  B. Howard [ Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To glue frets or not glue frets
I view gluing frets as a last resort on re-frets, and would never on new work. If your slots are the correct size for the tang there should be no problem. Just look at all the factory made stuff that has no glue on the frets and they don't spit them out.....Yes I know there are some that have a few loose frets but the majority do not.

Also, glue in the fret slots complicates re-frets down the road. Not because they are that much more difficult to pull but because of the glue that remains in the slot. Pull the frets, sand the FB down a bit and now all the slots are not deep enough......a real PITA on a bound board IMO.
Author:  dzsmith [ Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To glue frets or not glue frets
Good point Brian.
After a dozen builds, I still end up resawing the slots after radiusing the board to make them deep enough.
The fret ends are usually loose. I think the resaw widens the slots.
So in my case, I reckon I use glue due to poor construction.

By the way, thanks for the spraying advice you gave me a while back.
I'm finally getting the hang of it.
Dan
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To glue frets or not glue frets
Well Brian and I will have to respectfully disagree.

F*ctories do lots of things including in some cases not gluing frets but because a f*ctory does it does not in and of itself make it a best practice...

Glue is insurance and if you remember some of the posts made by someone who is no longer here he was keen to not only glue but basically pot the frets in hide glue. His claim, which I agree with, was that the better the frets are coupled meaning tang fit and glue to the fret board the more tone there is that would be lost otherwise.

You can hear a loose fret, or at least I can and again the board is expanding and contracting over time with RH swings but the frets are not expanding and contracting because the fret material is not hygroscopic. Over time frets loosen as a result and glue is just some added insurance.

Back in the day ep*xy refrets were a common thing but these days it's very much frowned upon mostly for two reasons. First ep*xy can remain soft and has high dampening and second what Brian brought up about contaminating the slots. Part of the ep*xy drill back in the day was to widen the slots and glue the frets in relying solely on the ep*xy to hold things in place. Problem is that our choices are now forever taken away from us in that how do you make a fret slot "less" wide if you want to nix the ep*xy and install them with mechanical friction and a low dampening glue for insurance.

Sure you likely can get away without gluing frets but again my default will always be that f*ctory instrument quality is never the goal, it's to be avoided and our goal should be exceeding f*ctory work in every conceivable way. Otherwise where is the differentiation between a Luthier built instrument and a stinkin f*ctory instrument....

Some of my early guitars the frets were not glued and they are fine these days but I won't not use glue in the future, I've see WAY too many loose frets that a few drops of glue would have let the show go on uninterrupted.

Removing glue from fret slots can be easy and quick provided that it's not ep*xy but even that can be removed. Some use hand tools and some use a dedicated router (Dr*mel in SM base) with dental burs.

As Brian also said deepening slots to match the tang depth is important too and at times leveling the board can reduce slot depth. SM has an excellent little saw for this for bound boards and a larger saw for unbound boards. We have and use both of them.
Author:  Shaw [ Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To glue frets or not glue frets
I only use glue on those pesky frets that sometimes won't set right. I'll use a little CA and the jaws hand press to clamp it down.

Sent from my SGH-T599 using Tapatalk
Author:  Sandywood [ Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To glue frets or not glue frets
I glue mine with Titebond.

I saw the frets slots to depth after radius trying to get "right" depth with very little, if any, filler needed at fret ends ( I haven't built a bound fretboard yet).
I clean the fretwire with Naptha, press the frets and cleanup the little bit of Titebond.

Not saying it's the best way...it's the way I'm comfortable with. FWIW I have had no fret issues on the guitars I've kept and none reported by those that I've built for.

I tried superglue a long time ago..."wicking" didn't work out for me. Made a mess and I didn't like the stuff wicking it's way all over the place. It'll run into wood grain so using black or clear is something to consider too...and for fretdots/markers. I've made the mistake of using black for black markers and had it run in the grain-staining what I didn't want stained.
Guess I'm rambling...
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