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Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=45570		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Freeman [ Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
I'm building a rather funky tele clone out of some old barn wood and thought this would be a good chance to try TruOil instead of my usual nitro or water born lacquers. I have heard and read that it was possible to get a good gloss with TruOil but you needed to apply many thin coats and wait a long time before buffing. I've applied 16 thin coats, a day apart, with some sanding to 400 or 600 every couple of coats. The oil finish itself is medium glossy, probably almost acceptable for this guitar. I let it cure for two full weeks and wet sanded it with 1200, 1500 and 2000 to a smooth matt finish. I then buffed it with StewMac medium and fine compounds on a wheel - the finish is not shiny and seemed to kind of pull out of the grain (ie it is quite rough). I sanded back to 400 and put another coat of TruOil on - I may leave it like this...

However, I may strip it back to bare wood and start over with lacquer. So, a couple of question - has this stuff soaked into the wood enough that I need to worry about adhesion? Should I use a chemical stripper or just sand back? Shellac over the TruOil and nitro over the shellac? Would KTM-9 be better than nitro? Forget the whole idea and tell people this is what I intended?

By the way, I don't necessarily want a deep wet look finish on this guitar but I would like a smooth and moderately glossy finish. I've done the neck in nitro and the contrast is not good.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
Barn wood? Did you seal it well first?
It's probably so dry and perhaps powdery that finish will not adhere well.
Author:  dzsmith [ Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
Freeman, not sure what your options are for covering the Tru-oil.
I wonder if the barn wood had something to do with it as Chris suggested?
This is my second attempt at using the oil.
Every wood surface and binding was coated with oil.
I was finally able to get a consistent sheen by rubbing it on, and wiping it off.
I did not achieve a glassy lacquer look.
I did not try to sand and polish it.
Tru-oil really makes the wood glimmer.
I'd be interested in knowing if the oil can be covered with nitro.
Much quicker to build coats with nitro and get a glassy finish.
Regards,
Dan
Author:  Freeman [ Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
Thanks guys. Here is a not very good picture of what I've got now (told you its funky but there is a story)

Image

Its either pine or fir, dry for sure and the first few coats really seemed to soak in which is why I'm hesitating about trying to strip it. The last coats seemed to sand fine without going to deeply into the finish, and wet sanding the final grades seemed pretty normal altho the finish seemed to resist being cut by the wet and dry paper (wet). It just went all to heck when I put it to the wheel - I assume that it wasn't cured enough and was still kind of soft.

Chris, no I didn't seal it at all. There is nothing in the TruOil instructions that talks about sealing - I just basically followed their web site which says to just rub it into the bare wood. What would you seal it with?
Author:  StevenWheeler [ Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
TruOil is not truly an oil finish, it is a polymerized oil aka a varnish. As such, it is not a suitable base for the application of nitro or waterborne lacquer top coat. You could top coat with a gloss varnish or possibly gloss poly urethane. Since it isn't an oil, sanding it off would leave you with a clean surface for another type of finish.

Steve
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
I seal with shellac before TruOil. In my experience the finish takes many coats to build, is rather soft, and finishes off with a very nice glow but not a hard shine. Not comparable to Nitro in any way IMHO.
Author:  Sandywood [ Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
Freeman, prior to learning how to build guitars I had no experience or knowledge about finishing anything.

I didn't have a place to spray paint nor desire to so all my guitars until my recent attempts at painting, where finished with Tru-Oil.

So my take on it to date;

I haven't played a guitar that feels better than a Tru-Oil neck. I have a decal and found that the face of the head is best sprayed with nitro. It doesn't require me to touch the decal and since it's a chrome metallic I don't mark it when I spray.

A Tru-Oil finish on the body? It depends on how one wants it to look ( and I like how yours looks) and it can be made to look as if it were sprayed. Even so, it's just not as durable and the player will be Ok if they know how to "service" if and when needed. If they don't then a spray finish would probably be best in the long haul.

Now that I've sprayed a couple with nitro my favorite guitars have a nitro body and head face with a Tru-Oil neck.

I use the Tru-Oil Sealer. That may be something you want to try next time before oiling it. I like their wax too.
I also dilute the oil. I have an easier time working it with better results but it takes more coats to get what I'm after - I like a thin coat on the neck.
Author:  Freeman [ Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
Thanks everyone. As usual, good advice.

I'm implementing Plan B - I sanded the TruOil back to bare wood, put a couple of coats of shellac on it to seal everything and just shot a couple of coats of nitro. Looks better already and I'm in waters I recognize. Will report back in a few weeks...
Author:  Freeman [ Fri May 08, 2015 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
Follow up. After 12 coats of nitro I decided that it looked like what I wanted (for this guitar) - glossy but not the deep PRS finish, still some wood character showing. I'm not going to buff it - I can always do that in the future. Looks like this

Image
Author:  Chris Pile [ Fri May 08, 2015 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
Looking good!
Author:  JimO [ Sun May 17, 2015 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
I'm starting to have second thoughts about Tru Oil myself. It's been fine for the first few guitars and basses, but like was said, it needs care down the road and won't last like Nitro. I do have a spray rig, but could use a better air compressor, and have sprayed some Nitro. Also have some water based finish that I refinished my in-laws oak dining room table with, and it's still looking good.

Tru Oil looks great at first, but I think a Nitro type finish can't be beat, except on the neck.
Author:  Freeman [ Mon May 18, 2015 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Not impressed with TruOil - what are my options
Jim, my finish of choice is a water born lacquer - I've used both the old StewMac product as well as KTM-9. It solves all the problems of solvent based lacquer - safe, not toxic, easy to clean up - and gives a very acceptable gloss. Coats don't burn together as well as nitro but if you leave a little alcohol in your gun after cleaning and shoot a mist before the next coat they seem to bond well. I've done tints and 'bursts with KTM-9 and will continue to use it unless there is a reason to use nitro.

In defense of TruOil, I probably didn't prepare/seal properly and the two plus weeks probably wasn't enough of a cure. However I won't be trying it in the future...
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