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Which fret layout instrument do you use?
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Author:  Trfsrfr [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Which fret layout instrument do you use?
I am a bit more than ankle deep into my first actual real build, and am unsure of my measuring results for the fret placement.
I would like to know what experienced builders use as a ruler/scale, what brand, length, etc? And where to buy one.
I have a 6" digital caliper, so I know i'm good to roughly the 5th fret, but beyond that....
I also have a cheap 30" ruler from Harbor Freight, but I don't trust its painted on measurements, and they only go to 1/16th inch anyway.
This particular build is going to be somewhere in the 22-24 inch scale length, so it's not something that I can just go purchase a scale/ruler from any luthier supply houses.
And besides, I prefer to learn to do it by hand at first anyway.
I tried searching the forums here, but didn't quite find the answer I was looking for.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Author:  rtpipkin [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
I use an 18" T ruler made by Incra. It doesn't cost that much and allows measuring and marking, through little slots in the ruler, to 1/64".

http://www.incra.com/product_t-rules.htm

Ray
Author:  the Padma [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
Glued down computer print out. Be careful not to stretch the paper when gluing it down.
Author:  John Sonksen [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
I use an inca ruler and calipers, make a mark off the ruler at 5", 10",15" and then do the math to get respective distances from each one of those with the calipers. It's better than going from one fret to the next. I also use decimal measurements of inches, trying to figure out a mark based on 64ths gets my head spinning.
Author:  Trfsrfr [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
Well I just gave my initial fret layout skills a try. I figured since I have the handy visor magnifying lenses I could be fairly precise. Wrong.
First I used my digital calipers to mark up to the 6th fret, with a square clamped at the nut.
Then I used an assumed to be 12" steel ruler, (the kind w the slot and is part of a square) and marked off the 12th fret.
Since I decided to use a 24" scale, the 12 and 24th fret locations are easy, 12 and 18 inches.
So then I layed out the 7-11th frets. Then I decided to work backwards from the 12 fret to check my work.
I only made it to the 11th fret to find out I was around .040 - .050 off.
And my neck hurts now :-)
Author:  Freeman [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
I'm on my 15th guitar and still buy preslotted fretboards from LMI. They will do custom scale lengths if you want something odd ball. I did one fretboard myself - a dulcimer - and got one fret a little bit off - it is basically unplayable.

One of these days I'm going to build or buy a mitering sled for my table saw - at that time I'll either buy the StewMac rules for standard scales or make my own - where I work we have a Trump laser cutter and I can lay it out accurately in a CAD program.
Author:  dzsmith [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
I use the Stewmac Gibson rule that has four different scales on it.
High quality steel. Just follow the etched lines, no measuring.
It even has marker locations for fret board dots.
I've been using local Mesquite and Pecan for boards that are pretty cheap.
Author:  Trfsrfr [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Thank you all for the replies
To Freeman; How far off was "a little bit" ?

I've been told that it's okay to be a little bit off as these things aren't perfect to begin with. But this rubs my engineering mind the wrong way. And it's driving me crazy that I may have to buy a custom slotted fretboard. Needing other people do things for me is not how I normally roll. I'm usually the guy you call when you need something done.

So now I am at the question of how much slop is acceptable?
What are the tolerances?
Author:  Freeman [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
I can't really tell you how much it is off - just that it does play out of tune. I almost never play it any more - its a nice wall hanger.

"How accurate does a fretboard need to be?" - That's an interesting question (and I don't know the answer). Both the StewMac fretboard calculator and my Les Paul plans are to three decimal places - that's pretty hard to measure with a yardstick LOL. Obviously measuring fret to fret with digital calipers adds any error - seems like you are far better to measure from the nut. Maybe others can chime in here.
Author:  Trfsrfr [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
If only I had a 30" digital caliper...
Author:  Freeman [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
Trfsrfr wrote:
If only I had a 30" digital caliper...


If you do have a CAD package, draw your fretboard to any degree of accuracy that you want and plot it. Even better would be to take the dfx file to a sheet metal shop with a water jet or laser and have them cut it for you - they can notch at each fret position. Cost should be pretty reasonable. I've made many templates on ours, just not a fret ruler (yet).
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
wfret is hard to beat: http://www.cigarboxnation.com/profiles/ ... e-easy-way

For a good ruler, I'd Google 'etched stainless ruler' in the increments/size you want and read some reviews to find a good one.
Author:  DennisK [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
I use the 36" here http://www.garrettwade.com/product.asp?pn=05S11.01&&SID=W4011000&EID=W4011001&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=ProductAds&utm_campaign=Google1&cvsfa=3928&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=30355331312e3032&gclid=CO3H6f7Y4bcCFc5DMgodwGkALg

Graduated to 64ths for the full length, and long enough to use for bridge positioning as well. And kind of two tools for the price of one, being a straightedge as well.
Author:  Shaw [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
Are you building with a custom scale? I use some Ibex fret rules I picked up over the years for normal fret scales. Stew mac and other's sell these. Ihttp://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Stra ... _Rule.html I also use fret slotting templates that pretty much do the hard work for me. Again stew mac and other suppliers sell these I just attach my fingerboard blank and cut the slots. I also have some of these Incra rules that Ray mentioned. If you do print out a fret scale template like the Padma suggested beware that many of these newer printers like to fit things to the margin. You have to choose not to do this in your print setting. If not it will be undersized....Mike
Author:  Trfsrfr [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  To all...
My cad program wasn't printing at first, but after some tuning I was able to print out a 2 page fret layout. I had to overlay the 2 pages at the X fret and align them (a light table would have been swell) because my paper was only 8.5 x 11, but I got a printout and layed it out on my fingerboard,
It was obvious where my mistake was made, I had a tendency to get ahead of my lines, starting at the 7th fret..
So I re-scribed, and started hacking.
Much has been learned and some fine sawdust has been made since.
I somehow rigged up a mitrebox/clamping system, and have since cut the nut slot(s), and up through the 13th fret.
I found that a standard razor blade is exactly the same width as my saw, that made things easier.

My straight-edge of the fretboard is the the bottom edge on this guitar neck, and is where all measurements where taken from.
I cut the front edge of the nut too deep on the low E string side, so any advice on fixing that would be sweet! I have tried to save as much rosewood dust as I can to mix w glue or epoxy if need be.
Other than that I have a few wider-than-preferred slots at the edges, but they should file away when I radius the board, yes?
At the end of this day I have an almost slotted fretboard that looks playable to me, and a whole new set of questions...
I'm happy for the moment.
Author:  Trfsrfr [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
Okay, I finished up sawing the fret slots.
I dont know if its gonna work or not, the 24th fret is "a little off" from where it should be according to my $2.00 Harbor Freight aluminum ruler, and the nut isn't quite right, but the fret slots look playable to me.
The slot placement that I was so worried about looks pretty darn close on most of them. There are some obvious errors, but most of them are on the edge of the fretboard that is being removed so it should clean up fine.
And as far as accuracy, I think you would need to be a luthier to see the mistakes.
I do think I want to glue the frets in though, just to be sure. I like the idea of filling up the space between, especially on those slots that are way too wide.
NEXT TIME - Pre-slotted fretboard :-)
Author:  Freeman [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
There are actually a whole lot more question left unanswered. For example - we compensate the saddle but not the frets themselves - why not? How accurate is "accurate"?

You might consider gluing the f/b on with a reversible glue so if it simply doesn't play in tune you can pop if off and make a new one.

btw - if you save your CAD files as a pdf you can take them to Kinkos or an engineer/architect and they can plot on their D sized plotter.
Author:  dzsmith [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which fret layout instrument do you use?
It sound's like you are using a thin kerf saw and making multiple cuts for each fret slot?
I use an inexpensive Zona #350 saw. They run around $6.00 on the Internet.
The Zona saw has a 0.022" blade width and works great for cutting slots on a budget.
Best of luck!
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