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| Shielded wire for output jack. http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=40114 |
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| Author: | Irving [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Shielded wire for output jack. |
Anyone always use shielded wire for the output jack on your guitars? Anyone ever omit it and use regular 22 guage (or similar) wire? I've never quite understood why the wiring to the output jack needs to be special shielded wire while the rest of the electronics all use regular wiring. I have used typical wire on a few guitars and shielded wire on a few. Never noticed any differences between any of them. |
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| Author: | Chameleon [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
I do not use shielded wire. I use two wires and twist them in a spiral which produces a hum cancelling effect. Not the same effect that a humbucker produces, but helps none the less. Shielded wire is a pain anyway. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
Quote: I use two wires and twist them in a spiral which produces a hum cancelling effect. You are kidding yourself. |
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| Author: | cphanna [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
I'm no expert, but I used shielded wire on my acoustic-electric archtop and would do so on any similar guitars that I build. It's a very quiet, clean sounding instrument. Patrick |
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
I don't use shielding on either the wire in the electronics cavity or around the inside of the cavity itself. Honesty? I think a lot of builders take the idea of shielding to irrational extremes...given the number of other uncontrollable ways in which RF ends up in a signal chain. I suppose it can't hurt to do it but I'm of the opinion that the most likely point at which RF is going to be introduced into the the signal chain is in the pickup windings. I make a unique pickup ring that results in the entire coil(s) being surrounded by metal...which I take the trouble to ground. My guitars are very clean. Make clean soldering connections, use quality wire and components, and use a well made guitar cable. I'm not sure going past that point returns a benefit anywhere near equal to the hassle. |
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| Author: | Dekka [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
Chris Pile wrote: Quote: I use two wires and twist them in a spiral which produces a hum cancelling effect. You are kidding yourself. My electronics guru told me this tip years ago and I have always twisted wherever I was unable to shield. Are you saying it's been all for nothing? Way to make a bloke feel bitter and TWISTED! 
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
Dekka wrote: Chris Pile wrote: Quote: I use two wires and twist them in a spiral which produces a hum cancelling effect. You are kidding yourself. My electronics guru told me this tip years ago and I have always twisted wherever I was unable to shield. Are you saying it's been all for nothing? Way to make a bloke feel bitter and TWISTED! Not trying to be a smart-alec, but twisted wires can suppress noise and hum. It's called a common-mode filter. Look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair |
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| Author: | Chameleon [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
I got the tip from Ron Kirn. Makes sense to me why it would help. He suggests only twisting the hot and ground leads which connect to the output jack. |
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
dzsmith wrote: Not trying to be a smart-alec, but twisted wires can suppress noise and hum. It's called a common-mode filter. Look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair Yes...in balanced pair operation. In a pickup lead, grounded shielding will eliminate the need for other measures and inside the wiring cavity there is no balanced pair operation. Twist the hot and ground from the jack? Even a cursory reading of the subject reveals variables that aren't being accounted for in this discussion....and couldn't be accounted for by arbitrarily twisting the jack leads. Read the "disadvantages" section in the Wikipedia link. It's a persnickety process with limited applications. The question is: has anyone ever not twisted jack leads and then resoldered the twisted leads.....and then compared the two.....and noticed a difference? C'mon. |
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| Author: | nutsdan [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
Test? We are talking about guitars here.Anecdotal evidence and half understood historical truths are enough for me. 
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| Author: | Dekka [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Zlurgh wrote: The question is: has anyone ever not twisted jack leads and then resoldered the twisted leads.....and then compared the two.....and noticed a difference? C'mon. What? You mean test?! Filippo Years ago, I made this bass out of recycled stuff with a homemade pickup and vintage cloth-covered wire (because that was all I had on hand). When I plugged it in for the first time it hummed badly. In despair, I took it to my electronics-savvy mate assuming my dodgy DIY pup that was at fault. I made the body completely hollow with no shielding at all. He suggested that before I built a new pickup I should twist together the long wires that ran to the pots all the way up on the top horn. When I did almost all of the hum disappeared. Later replacing the pup with a commercial one silenced the beast totally. I didn't wear a white lab-coat while I did it but I reckon this meets the 'test' criteria. |
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| Author: | Irving [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
Dekka wrote: Filippo Morelli wrote: Zlurgh wrote: The question is: has anyone ever not twisted jack leads and then resoldered the twisted leads.....and then compared the two.....and noticed a difference? C'mon. What? You mean test?! Filippo Years ago, I made this bass out of recycled stuff with a homemade pickup and vintage cloth-covered wire (because that was all I had on hand). When I plugged it in for the first time it hummed badly. In despair, I took it to my electronics-savvy mate assuming my dodgy DIY pup that was at fault. I made the body completely hollow with no shielding at all. He suggested that before I built a new pickup I should twist together the long wires that ran to the pots all the way up on the top horn. When I did almost all of the hum disappeared. Later replacing the pup with a commercial one silenced the beast totally. I didn't wear a white lab-coat while I did it but I reckon this meets the 'test' criteria. Very beautiful and unique bass you have there. Do the strings enter from the tail end of the body or through the back side? |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
Quote: Not trying to be a smart-alec, but twisted wires can suppress noise and hum. It's called a common-mode filter. Look it up. Apparently you are confusing the difference between hum and noise. I don't care how long or how well the wires are twisted, they WILL NOT remove the 60 cycle hum of a single coil pickup. I may be splitting hairs, folks - but I'm not wrong about this. |
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| Author: | Dekka [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
Dekka wrote: Very beautiful and unique bass you have there. Do the strings enter from the tail end of the body or through the back side? Four ferrules embedded in the tail. |
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| Author: | Chameleon [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shielded wire for output jack. |
nutsdan wrote: Test? We are talking about guitars here.Anecdotal evidence and half understood historical truths are enough for me. I just remembered, if you use Brazillian rosewood for the entire body, it will cancel hum. Something about gamma rays. |
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