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| Newbie with a neck wood question http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=39849 |
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| Author: | Blake Layton II [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Newbie with a neck wood question |
Wanting to build my first solid body electric as a neck-through hybrid of several popular "V" patterns. I have small hands and as such, tend to favor the thin, wide neck profile of Ibanez's "Wizard" necks, and so I would like to roughly pattern my own neck off of their dimensions in a neck-through length. While researching the wizard neck, I learned that many of the newer ones are a 5-ply laminate of hard maple and walnut. Would any of you know why they are using MWMWM laminates? Does it positively effect the tonality of the neck, provide greater structural strength, or is it a cosmetic detail for the transparent finishes and just used with opaque paints because it is easier to mass produce one product rather than two or more? Could it be a combination of these? I look forward to the insight of those of you with muc more experience, and hope to learn as much as possible! |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
My guess is they used laminates because they didn't have large enough pieces for the whole neck. Or they wanted to save money. |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
Chris Pile wrote: My guess is they used laminates because they didn't have large enough pieces for the whole neck. Or they wanted to save money. Probably so. Quater-sawn neck blanks may be expensive and wasteful. Laminating may be a way to use random cut pieces to produce a stiff neck. I'm not knocking Ibanez, I have bought several cheap Ibanez guitars that were well worth the money. Wish I still had the lawsuit Firebird. |
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| Author: | nickinbruns [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
You and me both, DZ, but I do have an open headstock Futura currently undergoing restoration, so I'll have to live with that. Second point is that when using hard maple, I've never seen any reason not to use it board cut, and the bird'seye maple doesn't show unless it is board cut, so I understand. I've been a long-time Ibanez fan, and believe the laminated neck is just a signature move, from the Musician and Studio series, on and on, it's a signature mark for them, just as it is for Venturas....Sure doesn't hurt, but it doesn't necessarily help, either....I've made one laminated neck and it was pretty Attachment: BB with 3220 001 (Small).JPG
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| Author: | klooker [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
By laminating you can make a strong, stable neck with less expense in materials but more expense in labor. You also get the cosmetic bonus if you like it - probably why they did the dramatic Walnut & Maple combination. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Quine [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
Like everyone said....great way to make a stable neck from smaller, cheaper pieces. I would guess that its cheaper labor too. Even though there is time wasted while waiting for the glue to dry, its probably cheaper labor to glue up blanks than to get a wood expert to find good-grained blanks. I'm sure the necks are carved by CNC so that cost is a wash. If you're new to carving I suggest sticking with mahogany from a luthier supplier. Its nice to carve and pretty consistent. All those changes in wood and glue lines can make laminates fussier to carve. |
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| Author: | Chameleon [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
Just make sure you have access to a jointer. If not, you're in for a LOT of labor. |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
Chameleon wrote: Just make sure you have access to a jointer. If not, you're in for a LOT of labor. Yep on that. My first neck was laminated - never again will I do that without a jointer. |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
Lamination gets you better stability, a touch more stiffness and often better quartering across the entire neck. I mostly do it for aesthetic reasons on electrics, and for practical/efficiency and aesthetic reasons on acoustics since I don't like stacked heels, 12/4 quartered stock is hard to find and expensive, and would scarf joint the head anyway. +1 to the jointer thing. I have done 10 necks with hand planes, but the ease and time savings the jointer introduces are very significant. |
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| Author: | JEguitars [ Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
I am not a fan of laminate necks at all. They look cheap to me. Not knocking anyone that does them because a LOT of guys do, but it's just not for me at all. |
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
My opinion is that Rickenbacker makes some of the best necks of any maker. They use laminated necks, maple and walnut IIRC, and have done it that way since the 60's. All the necks I've done have been laminated, but I use a hybrid design that incorporates the scarf joint at the headstock into the laminations. |
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| Author: | Blake Layton II [ Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
Have access to a Powermatic 6 1/2" Jointer with 6' tables, a table saw, planer, etc. Honestly, at this point the tool I wish I had access to the most would be a good 24" drum sander. I've always had trouble with planing bows and twists out of wood, as the feed rollers simply press the board flat, plane a nice edge, and then let the bow spring back into place. Thanks for all the info! I do have some experience in a woodshop, spent 3-4 years building and installing custom cabinetry and shutters, just no experience in luthiery. Also, I stopped doing finish cabinetry and started doing paramedicine about 8 years ago, so hopefully it's like riding a bicycle... Second Question: My build is roughly a Jackson RRV neck-through (actually closer to the Agile Reaper) with the maple neck and an ebony fretboard. Up until now I was planning on building the body wings out of Mahogany. I'm sure my logic is flawed, but I was hoping the Maple and Ebony would accentuated the guitar's attack and brighten the upper end, while the Mahogany helped round out the mids. Anyway, while continuing to research similar guitars during the planning stage, I've noticed that most guitars of a similar body style and music genre are build with Maple/Alder, rather than Maple/Mahogany. Should I be rethinking my materials? So far only the Maple is purchased... |
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| Author: | msween [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
I've seen mahogany used with this combination a number of times, but for the price of mahogany, I would probably recommend going with Ash, Alder or Poplar for the body wings. I don't find that it makes a HUGE impact on tone when used solely for the body wings. Especially when you're plugged. I'm sure someone will argue that, but that's what I've found in my experience. Ash, alder and poplar are all excellent tone woods regardless, perhaps a little brighter than you would prefer, ash will require a lot of grain filler to have a smooth surface, poplar finished funny, the grain likes to raise I find, at least when using an oil based finish like Tung Oil, and I have no experience building with alder, but my understanding is that it is a tight grained wood that requires little to no grain filling. A lot of the Mayones Regius guitars, for example, have maple/walnut laminate necks, ebony boards, and ash body wings, and they are excellent sounding guitars. some even use mahogany wings, with an Ash top. |
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| Author: | heloflyer [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
Blake Layton II wrote: Have access to a Powermatic 6 1/2" Jointer with 6' tables, a table saw, planer, etc. Honestly, at this point the tool I wish I had access to the most would be a good 24" drum sander. I've always had trouble with planing bows and twists out of wood, as the feed rollers simply press the board flat, plane a nice edge, and then let the bow spring back into place. Thanks for all the info! I do have some experience in a woodshop, spent 3-4 years building and installing custom cabinetry and shutters, just no experience in luthiery. Also, I stopped doing finish cabinetry and started doing paramedicine about 8 years ago, so hopefully it's like riding a bicycle... Blake I recently started my first build as well. I go to a local cabinet shop to get things sanded in the drum sander, so if you have one nearby they may help you out. They charged me 60/hr for sanding but it was WELL worth it. everything came out great and removed the any crowning. Hope this helps. Ben |
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| Author: | JEguitars [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Newbie with a neck wood question |
I got my 24" drum sander off craigslist for $400. It's been a God send. It is HEAVY though. |
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