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Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
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Author:  dougsnash [ Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
I am in the early layout phase of my first real guitar build project. I have assembled a couple of kits but really want to try a scratch build. I am planning a Telecaster body twelve string. I have the basic shape of the body template almost ready for cutting and am trying to sort out some of the details of the neck.

Does anyone here have access to a Fender twelve string neck that could verify a couple of dimensions for me? I am looking to confirm the nut width and the width of the heel.

So far I have read the Strat XII has a 1.650" nut and Warmoth sells a twelve string Fender style neck with a 1.750" nut. I have a clone of a Gibson EDS-1275 and its twelve string neck has a nut of 1.900". The only Fender product I have access to is a Squier Affinity and its smaller dimensions would not work for a full sized guitar. I don't want to end up with an unplayable guitar because the strings are too close together.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Doug M
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
Is this 12 string for you, or for a client?
Might make a difference, ya know.
Author:  Freeman [ Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
You might PM Chris over at MIMF - apparently he just built a 12 string Tele.

http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1846

I'm an acoustic 12 string builder and player and my preference is 1-7/8 nut and 2-5/16 string spacing at the saddle (your choice of pups will affect that somewhat).
Author:  Chameleon [ Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
I'd go with Freemans advice, or google 12 string guitar nut width to get more opinions. Heel width will depend on the bridge string spacing, which, as Freeman said, may depend on your pickups, unless you're winding your own. When you draw out the strings on a set of plans, it will be easy to draw out the fretboard shape, edges usually being exactly parallel to the outside strings spaced somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/8" from string to edge, more or less according to preference.

Good luck!
Author:  Freeman [ Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
Unless you are trying to clone the Fender specs exactly, I would also recommend checking the specs on Taylor's electric 12 strings (should be on line, you can do the searching) Their acoustics are some of the best currently being made and while I've never played a T5-12 I'll bet they are pretty darn good also.

edit to add - I was stumbling around at UMGF and came onto this. Two Fender sightings - one reports 1-11/16 and one says 1-3/4. And apparently Ricks are as narrow as 1-5/8 (man, there is no way I could play that)

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... expression

and to keep you inspired, some electric 12 string eye candy

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... urs?page=1
Author:  dougsnash [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
This is definitely a personal build project. I have no intention of selling any of my builds at this point.

My plan is to use a modified Gotoh Tele bridge with 12 string hardtail strat saddles. I've read someplace that additional holes can easily be added beside the saddle screws to allow adding the additional six strings while still using the original through body attachment for the main string set. I guess I'll have to get the bridge configuration roughed out before I can worry too much about the final layout.

I appreciate your patience as I am pretty much a beginner in this hobby. Any advice is welcome.

Thanks

Doug M
Author:  dougsnash [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
I'm pretty much ready to order the bridge assemblies I'm going to have to combine to create the 12 string Tele. Before I do I'd like to get some input on the style of pickups to use.

I was thinking of using a Seymour Duncan splittable Humbucker in the bridge position and a single coil in the neck position. With the wiring options available from the Duncan Humbucker I will end up with far more options than the traditional three found on Teles.

Are Seymour Duncan pickups worth the money? Are there better or equivalent but more affordable options? Am I making this project more complex than it needs to be?

With this being my first real build I don't necessarily want to have to take out a mortgage to finish it but at the same time, I want to build a good quality, good sounding guitar. The crisp sound of the Tele body coupled with the sound of a twelve string just seems like a natural combination.

Doug M
Author:  David Lane [ Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
Realize this is one man's opinion, but one who has built a 12-string Tele. Save yourself a headache and some money and buy this bridge for the saddles

Image


LINK. It's the gotoh 12-string bridge without the branding.

On the nut width, I made mine 1 7/8", but 1 3/4" or 1 13/16" will work better if your buying the neck instead of making it as I did. My neck width at the heel is larger than Fender std at 2 1/4". As for pickups, GFS LINK has several that would be good. I would stick to single-coils for better clarity. I used humbuckers and the neck pup is so overwhelmed it's almost useless (like some Rickys). A mini-humbucker would be ok but not wound overly hot. Lipsticks, strat type, even P90s wouldn't be bad. GFS has a single-coil built somewhat like a Ricky toaster pup the would work well, just don't get them too close to the strings, they're fairly hot



Image


They come with centers white or black ;) . Finally, Teles usually have a lot more than 3 sounds, even single pup Esquires. With creative use of caps, wiring and mini switches they can roar ;)


BTW, here's my 12-string, in the center between my SX bass and my Strat-tele conversion


Image


It has a "Snakehead" tele style headstock but I designed it to work and string like a Ricky. Was heck to design and build but it works like a charm ;)


Image


Dave
Author:  dougsnash [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
My Gotoh 12-string bridge has arrived. It is a very nice piece. I still haven't decided whether to use it as is or move the saddles over to a traditional Tele bridge assembly. I've started laying out the guitar on a piece of hardboard which will eventually become my master template. I needed the bridge in hand to establish the actual spacing between the top octave string and the bottom high E string. This will help me sort out how the rest of the guitar will work. I've also ordered a couple of books to help me understand the layout of a guitar a bit better. While it looks easy at first, it starts to become a little more difficult when you look at the details. Especially if , like me, your not smart enough to stick to a traditional build for your first project.

Further research has convinced me that since I am going to scratch build this beast, I may as well try my hand at pickup winding too. I have most of the plastic parts made to build my own design pickup winder based on a sewing machine motor (advantages of having a 3D printer). I'll not let the learning curve for winding pickups hijack my Tele build though. If I am not happy with the results of the winding, I'll by a decent set of pickups.

My big problem right now is school. I'm into the last month of my Bachelors degree and it is eating up all of my spare time. I can't wait till I'm done and then I can concentrate on the important stuff (Guitars).

Thanks for the guidance so far guys, greatly appreciated.

Doug M
Author:  dougsnash [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
By the way Dave, I read through your 12-string build thread. Amazing guitar. I hope mine turns out somewhere near as nice as yours.

Doug M
Author:  David Lane [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
dougsnash wrote:
By the way Dave, I read through your 12-string build thread. Amazing guitar. I hope mine turns out somewhere near as nice as yours.

Doug M


Thanks Doug :oops: , it was a labor of love in many ways. Yeh, the TDPRI is my home base, but my local luthier group is mostly from here.................and tempting me mightily to get back to acoustics :) , must resist...... ;)


Note: Sorry I'm such a software Luddite, or I'd take a picture of my routing template and work it up in Illustrator for you. My body is slightly larger than a true tele, but the neck pocket to bridge (that bridge actually) is tele standard. I used a 25" fret scale but the body makes no allowance for it, just has a wider neck heel (2 1/4") and slightly shorter neck. You could bolt up an SX neck, string up only 6 strings and it would work fine. I make all bodies standard where bridge to neck pocket is concerned. Leaves one less thing to think about ;)
Author:  Greg B [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
I am fairly certain that the Fender XII heel is 2 3/8".

Last year, I put together a part-o-caster "Jazzmaster XII" using a Warmoth 12 neck and the Gotoh bridge. The Warmoth necks have a standard heel width (2 3/16"). This works out OK, but the strings end up a little closer to the edge of the fingerboard towards the heel than they do at the nut. If you're building from scratch, you might as well use 2 3/8, or maybe 2 5/16", as it will play a little better up the neck.

Just in case you need another opinion - the pickups in my XII are Duncan Antiquity II jazzmaster PU, which sound fantastic in this application.
Author:  David Lane [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
Greg B wrote:
the pickups in my XII are Duncan Antiquity II jazzmaster PU, which sound fantastic in this application.


I'll bet they do :) . I'll bet the OP would appreciate it if you could confirm the neck measurements. Your neck may not be 2 3/8", but the pocket measurement would tell for sure ;)
Author:  dougsnash [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
Thanks guys, I am starting to get my head around the layout of the guitar. I have decided I am going to wind my own pickups for this project. If I'm going to scratch build the guitar, I may as well try the pickups too. I have made a good start on a pickup winder while I've been waiting for a couple of books on scratch guitar building to arrive and I have the bobbin kits for a 52mm humbucker and a 50 mm Telecaster neck pickup. Both use Alnico 2 magnets.

I think I am going to go with a 1 3/4" nut width and the high E to low E octave string on the Gotoh bridge is 2 1/4". I haven't decided what I want to do about string spacing at the nut yet, I'm hoping the books I have on order will provide some guidance. I was going to order a string spacing ruler with my latest Stew-Mac order but forgot to add it. Oh well, I'll have another order to make before too long.

The books I have on order are:

Make Your Own Electric Guitar by Melvyn Hiscock
Building Electric Guitars: How to Make Solid-Body, Hollow-Body and Semi-Acoustic Electric Guitars and Bass Guitars by Martin Koch
How to Build Electric Guitars: The Complete Guide to Building and Setting Up Your Own Custom Guitar by Will Kelly

Hopefully one or all of these books will have a gem or two of knowledge for me.

Thanks for the guidance.

Doug M
Author:  David Lane [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
If I may be so bold (since your building a tele type guitar), why don't you join over at the TDPRI and read through the Build Challenge archives. Those are an encyclopedia of electric guitar building with a great many methods being used. It would let you get a feel for where your going and what methods you might want to use. Any extra info is good, right? I wish you luck ;)
Author:  dougsnash [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
Thanks for the recommendation David. I have already joined TDPRI but have not dug into the challenge archives yet. I bet there is lots of good stuff there though.

Doug M
Author:  David Lane [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Beginning a Telecaster Twelve String Project
dougsnash wrote:
Thanks for the recommendation David. I have already joined TDPRI but have not dug into the challenge archives yet. I bet there is lots of good stuff there though.

Doug M


I think you'll find here and there to be quite an education..............welcome to the forum! :)
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