Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 9:26 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:32 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:27 pm
Posts: 277
First name: James
Last Name: Greene
State: Maine
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I have built 10 guitars to date. All have been successful builds. However, some of them simply do not stay in tune as well as others. The only guitar I own that is not handmade is a MIM tele that holds tune like a champ. My other handmade guitars slip out of tune within minutes of playing - just enough to notice. The G string is the worst but most all of them go out a tiny bit. What could be possible reasons behind this? Some kind of problem with my nut perhaps? What else could it be? All the wood I use has either been kiln dried or naturally dried for decades. I use either Gotoh or Wilkinson tuning keys.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:45 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 1135
Location: Hudson, MA
First name: Kevin
Last Name: Quine
City: Hudson
State: MA
Country: Usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I'd look at the nut first. If the string binds up in the nut slot you can get higher string tension between the nut and tuner post. Then the tension equalizes when you start to play and goes out of tune. If you have the right size nut file for the G string then clean up the slot some. Or get a torch tip cleaner set and pic the size you need.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:22 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 2739
Location: Magnolia DE
First name: Brian
Last Name: Howard
City: Magnolia
State: Delaware
Zip/Postal Code: 19962
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
A touch of graphite in the nut slots may help as well. Make sure your tuners are securely tightened and that the shaft holes were drilled the correct size. On some bridges a rough bridge saddle can have the same effect as a tight nut slot.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:40 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5821
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
This is going to sound rude, but are you sure the bridge is in the right place on the handmades?

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:44 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:27 pm
Posts: 277
First name: James
Last Name: Greene
State: Maine
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Chris Pile wrote:
This is going to sound rude, but are you sure the bridge is in the right place on the handmades?


Doesn't sound rude, it's a legit question. However, even if the bridge was halfway across the body where it shouldn't be, the guitar should still hold tune and not slip out as you play. It would obviously be intonated horridly bad and every fret would sound off, but it should still hold whatever tuning you set the open strings at. But that aside, yes the guitars are intonated perfectly and bridge location is precise. My problem is slipping out of tune as you play. It is not even major at all. It is minor, but they ought to hold tune as well as a Fender. I am going to try graphite in the nut slots more often.

Also, perhaps I do not have the nut slot angled enough with my 13 degree tiltback headstock?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:24 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 1213
Location: Raleigh, NC
First name: Ringo
Quine wrote:
I'd look at the nut first. If the string binds up in the nut slot you can get higher string tension between the nut and tuner post. Then the tension equalizes when you start to play and goes out of tune...


Indeed this is likely what's going on provided you don't have tremolo issues. A couple of dead giveaways are if you hear little 'pings' while tuning or it seems to always go out of tune after bending strings or playing aggressively. Expand the nut slots side to side to be oh just ever so slightly larger than the strings and you should be fine. Basically you should be able to bend a string on either side of the nut without it going out of tune. Don't mess with putting graphite in the nut slots; that's a workaround that might make things slightly better but doesn't solve the underlying issue.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:04 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:15 pm
Posts: 529
First name: Mark
Last Name: Sorrentino
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
lex_luthier wrote:
Quine wrote:
I'd look at the nut first. If the string binds up in the nut slot you can get higher string tension between the nut and tuner post. Then the tension equalizes when you start to play and goes out of tune...


Indeed this is likely what's going on provided you don't have tremolo issues. A couple of dead giveaways are if you hear little 'pings' while tuning or it seems to always go out of tune after bending strings or playing aggressively. Expand the nut slots side to side to be oh just ever so slightly larger than the strings and you should be fine. Basically you should be able to bend a string on either side of the nut without it going out of tune. Don't mess with putting graphite in the nut slots; that's a workaround that might make things slightly better but doesn't solve the underlying issue.


Yeah, that's what happens when you don't use the right nut files. If there's no tremolo I'd suspect this to be the problem. After that, maybe make sure there's a finish on your neck and all your screws are in tight. My guitars aren't that old yet but they stay in tune pretty good (especially the cocobolo, stayed in tune for 4 months in storage. Sweet!)

_________________
http://www.tinyhouseandland.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:35 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 8:35 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: Austin, Texas
First name: Dan
Last Name: Smith
City: Round Rock
State: TX
Zip/Postal Code: 78681
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I'd check the screws on the ends of the tuner knobs to make sure they are snug, then make sure the strings are not binding in the nut as suggested.
I can't seem to find the fender stainless strings I like anywhere. I put on some slinky's and noticed they were constantly going flat. Turns out they were unwinding at the ball ends- drove me nuts trying to figure out what was going on.

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:02 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:25 pm
Posts: 733
First name: John
Last Name: coloccia
Country: States
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I hate to say the word "always" because it's not always a problem at the nut, however the number of times that a tuning stability problem is NOT a caused by the nut is vanishingly small. Sometimes it's something weird, like chewed up knife edges, or something like that. A physicist would probably say "always".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:28 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 365
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
All of mine that have went out of tune easily all had binding at the nut.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com