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Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=36510		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  An Lao Shi [ Thu May 17, 2012 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
I realized a few days ago that the Titebond Original I have is probably past its prime and that I need to buy glue. The problem is finding Titebond Original where I live. I usually buy a bottle when I visit the States and bring it back with me to Taiwan, or I order it from Stew-Mac. That last option gets very expensive, however.

I can buy Titebond II and Titebond III here. I once wrote to Franklin International asking which one would be better suited for musical instrument building. Mr. Dale Zimmerman responded that Titebond II would be the better choice.

However, on one forum which I frequent, both Titebond II and III have a bad reputation when it comes to instrument building. That leads to my question in the title.

Has anyone here used Titebond II or III for instrument building with good results?

Comments most appreciated.
Author:  Mike Dotson [ Thu May 17, 2012 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
TB-II has been known to have creep issue, plus just how much moisture will your guitar be exposed to?
Dunno about III but I find the regular gives me plenty of time to clamp things.
Author:  John A [ Thu May 17, 2012 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
An -

Talk to Tai Fu - he is also in your country - although I am not sure of the region - he will be happy to have another countryman on this board - it sounds like you two would have the same difficulties for supplies such as this and materials - he may give you some ideas. I know he uses animal glues - hide glue - he may be better suited to respond considering your geographical location.

welcome aboard !
Author:  Musiclogic [ Thu May 17, 2012 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
Never had a single problem with Titebond II, I use it almost exclusively these days(since they quit making the Dark in regular) and it works great. Never had any creep issue. That is more about poor clamps and clamping(too many people relying on quick grips which are notorious for moving parts because of the cheesey yellow tips).
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... 23&t=36027

this bass has been built completely using Titebond II yellow and dark.
Author:  bluescreek [ Thu May 17, 2012 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
Tite bond does have a history of creep 1 11 and 111 . that is where the protein glues are better. The other factor is when you need to do repairs , Fish glue and Hot Hide glue will allow to reglue to themselves. Tite bond needs to be cleaned out .
That being said , tite bond does work for most luthiery uses , but stresses can allow them to creep. I tend to believe that often it is a glueing technique or heat stress issues that may be the root of the cause for it. Tite bond has been used by guitar builders for years and is a proven adhesive .
Hide and fish glue will dry harder than tite bond .
Author:  Glen H [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
I used T 2 one time and the glue lines were dark. I never used it again.
Author:  B. Howard [ Fri May 18, 2012 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
Type 2 needs a longer cure time before sanding, or the glue lines will tend to raise or "creep". It's not that the wood moves, it's the glue. Type 3 can be difficult to work with,especially on complex assemblies. Same creep issues as 2. I think any glue can be used acceptably provided proper techniques are used. But I avoid type 2 &3 unless moisture conditions dictate it's use.
Author:  Shaw [ Sat May 19, 2012 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
My experience with these two glues is that they don't seem to dry as hard as the original. They dry softer or at least I think they do. This may be how they hold up under outside conditions by remaining slightly flexible so they can withstand temperature changes. Just my thoughts. I may be wrong....Mike
Author:  dzsmith [ Sat May 19, 2012 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
Shaw wrote:
My experience with these two glues is that they don't seem to dry as hard as the original. They dry softer or at least I think they do. This may be how they hold up under outside conditions by remaining slightly flexible so they can withstand temperature changes. Just my thoughts. I may be wrong....Mike


I used Titebond I and had veneer loosen during wet sanding. I switched to III and then to II. The glue does not seem to get hard and softens when sanding. I usually end up with some glue lines that I dig out with a knife and refill with epoxy. My next build will be expoxy.
Dan
Author:  Musiclogic [ Mon May 21, 2012 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
verhoevenc wrote:
If you have good tight joints I've never really understood why dark would be needed. So, the way that tite bond II and III allow for their moisture and heat abilities is by never FULLY drying, hence creep issues. It's kind of like how glass isn't truly a solid... It seems to be, but over years and years it'll flow downward. These glues are not meant for instruments. Tite bond I holds up to PLENTY of humidity just fine. If you get to the point where Tite bond I has issues due to moisture... Chances are the wood in the guitar was way worse off way earlier than the Tite bond.
Chris


Yep Chris, there is no reason for dark glue if your joins are good....LOL Sorry, didn't mean to express bemusement with this statement. If this were true, Franklin, and a number of other adhesive companies would not produce it. Believe it or not, some people don't use dark glue to cover imperfections, it maybe something even more sinister....LMAO laughing6-hehe
Author:  An Lao Shi [ Wed May 23, 2012 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
Wanted to thank everyone who responded to my question. I have ordered Titebond Original from Woodcraft. The actual cost of the glue was about half of what Stew-Mac charges for the same size. However, shipping was very expensive.

On a side note, I contacted the owner of a woodwrking supply online store here in Taichung and asked about stocking Titebond Original. He sells Titebond II and III. He said he'd look into it. Hopefully, the next time I need to buy glue I can buy from him.
Author:  B. Howard [ Wed May 23, 2012 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
Home Depot and Lowes usually carry Titebond I.
Author:  John Coloccia [ Thu May 24, 2012 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
FYI, my one experience with TBIII, and this was just a bench test because I was curious, was that it required a ridiculous amount of heat and moisture to get it apart. I personally would not want to repair a guitar built with TB3.
Author:  Shaw [ Mon May 28, 2012 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does anyone use Titebond II or III?
B. Howard wrote:
Home Depot and Lowes usually carry Titebond I.

Yes they do but I have found from experience that their stock is usually outdated. Well at least it is here in Philadelphia. Maybe there is not enough woodworkers here to buy up their stock to keep the fresh stuff coming in. It is usually dusty and showing that darker yellowish color on the top of the bottle. The same applies for Lowe's too. Below is some info I picked up from titebond's site on dating their products. It will help you pick the freshest stuff.
"First number is the last number of the year it was produced.
The letters stand for the months starting with (A) for January and so on. They skip (I) becasue it resembles (1).
The rest of the of the stuff stands for what batch it comes from"
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