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Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=35701		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  John Lewis [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
Hi guys-

I am building my first electric guitar, a telecaster copy with a maple neck and rosewood fingerboard. I need to figure out which two-way trussrod to use - the Allied lutherie version or Stewmac's Hot Rod. Which do you prefer and why? Or do you prefer just graphite rods with no trussrod?

Thanks-
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
I haven't used the Allied rods....only the Hot Rods...of which I'ved used five. Yesterday I recieved twenty more Hot Rods.

It's very important to me that the dimensional tolerances of the brass endblocks are consistent from batch to batch so that I can be reasonably certain that my truss rods are going to fit snugly into the slots I cut on the cnc machine. I'm often in the situation where I don't have a rod present to check the fit so I have to depend upon their ability to hold tolerances.

Going through all twenty of these rods....the tolerance are basically perfect. Kudos to Hot Rods for that.

Then...nothing that could go wrong with a truss rod has gone wrong in my five builds...so there's that.

The endblocks on the Hot Rods are nicely designed such that the rods themselves, with their protective plastic layer have the exact same width as the endblock....so the whole assembly, rods and enblocks fit snugly into the slot. Getting the slot to the exact right width is simple on the cnc machine and results in no possibility of the thing rattling later.

The only thing I'd do differently is to eventually make my own two way acting, single truss rod....to cut back on mass. But at $13.50 for the Hot Rods, I doubt I'll be motivated very soon to do it.
Author:  B. Howard [ Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
+1 on the Hot Rods. I think Allied's threads are too fine. When I adjust a truss rod I don't want to insert the wrench and remove it a dozen times to get the job done.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
I like the allied rods 'cuz the rectangular rod on top holds the rod straight while being turned. Not sure if it really affects anything, but the two round rods twist around each other with the hot rods when adjusted out of the neck, the allieds/lmi rods stay straight. I think this makes them a little stiffer and likely more stable.

I don't like the idea of the rod trying to twist around in the truss slot while I'm adjusting it either, although I'ms sure that once it's adjusted there's no twisting stress on the rod itself.

The LMI rods aren't as fine threaded as the allied rods while being the same design, and Allparts actually sells a double rod made in China that works the same way and seems pretty strong and reliable.
Author:  Chameleon [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
I prefer Allieds rods because they don't require as deep of a route, so you can carve your neck a little thinner, which is how I like my necks. If you like fat necks however, doesn't matter.

Plus stews rods feel pretty cheap to me. Pick up the two side by side and Allieds certainly feel nicer.
Author:  Musiclogic [ Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
used about 5 hotrods, not for me. Never used Allied, use LMI, Grizzly, WD rods and all work well. the 3/8" deep rout and 1/4" wide slot make for much easier installs and ability to do thinner necks. Also the custom router bit is a bit inconvenient, and costly. I have one of those bits in my bit case now doing zip...waste of money.
Author:  jimmysux [ Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
I use truss rods from this guy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Truss-Rod-Steel ... _729wt_906

always work perfect, no special bit needed to route the channel, just a standard 1/4" bit works, and they are tons cheaper and the guy ships quickly
Author:  Cocephus [ Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
The welds on these rods are more than ample. About 1/2" bead on both sides with ample heat penetration.
I have some of these same rods, only from a different seller (Bezdez).
So far I`ve used 3 of these rods, one being 4 years ago with no issues at all.
Coe Franklin
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
That bezdez rod doesn't even look welded to me. Quite frankly, it looks like it just has a little solder holding it together. I would be EXTREMELY hesitant to put that in a neck. In fact, I wouldn't.
Author:  jimmysux [ Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
The welds on the rods I listed are perfect, very nicely done, good penetration. They turn with no problem, and it doesn't take a lot of turns to get where you want with the neck.
Author:  Musiclogic [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
jimmysux wrote:
I use truss rods from this guy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Truss-Rod-Steel ... _729wt_906

always work perfect, no special bit needed to route the channel, just a standard 1/4" bit works, and they are tons cheaper and the guy ships quickly


yeah, those rods are good, the welds are smooth and look clean, have used them before, am actually using 2 of them in my current 8 string ERB build but from a different supplier, although he is just 30 miles north of me, and is a great guy to deal with
Image
Author:  Musiclogic [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
Filippo Morelli wrote:
This is the one I had looked at recently, which had caused me to ask about welds:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190525479098

Are all these blue ones made by the same folks? There are many sellers so I don't know if folks on this thread are all discussing the same truss rod?

Here's a photo for the above truss rod. That weld is mighty small - looks more like a tack. Worse off - there is no weld at metal to metal contact. That's a weld blob jumping the gap, giving the impression that something is held together well. Anyone here with professional welding experience will have concern with this - kind of like a blob of Titebond that touches two piece of wood that don't join. There is this frustrating concept called, "sheer". Nonetheless, it would not pass my QC.

Attachment:
bezdez.jpg


Truss rods seem to be a squirrelly subject. I'm now using mostly Martin double and Allied's rods (http://alliedlutherie.com/truss_rods.htm). The latter especially on electrics where my neck thickness at the first fret is very thin. Stew Mac's stuff was too thick for my application. There are other manufacturers. People seem to be concerned about breakage - shall we assume it occurs in the wild? Experience?

Here's a photo of the Allied rod welds:

Attachment:
Trussrod.jpeg


Filippo

The Bezdez rod is a completely different unit, not made by the same company. The first ones listed from the guy in Dorr, MI have much longer welds, and are quite well made.
Author:  Musiclogic [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
Filippo Morelli wrote:
Great to know, Harold. Can you guys post a few close up photos? I'd love to see the rod construction. Thanks!

Filippo


Filippo, I think I have a couple of the black ones from the same company(the ones used in Nordstrand basses), I'll grab a few pics for you and post em tonight ;)

I'll also post a pic of the ends of the new rods I am using if they show up today.

Got the WD rods, will post pics tomorrow, the black shrink tubing rods I have are wrapped from block to the adjustment nut, so I could not get pics without removing the shrink warp...sorry.
Author:  dholzric [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
I bought some from the link jimmysux posted and i cut away some of the shrink tubing and the welds look great. (which is a good thing since i ordered 10 of them.)
Author:  John Coloccia [ Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
These new rods look interesting. They look thinner than the normal double action rod. Is that true?

Anyhow, I've been using the Allied rods and have been pleased. I love how smoothly they adjust.

Filippo: I've had a rod break. It wasn't an Allied rod but it was the same style. I forget who's it was. Anyhow, I was turning it and something just went *SNAP*, and that was it. So it doesn't happen often, but it can occasionally happen. It didn't break at the weld, though. It broke at the threads.
Author:  Musiclogic [ Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
Filippo Morelli wrote:
Yup ... it's why I've been asking for photos, as the weld area will show both the welds and the "meat" of the thread boss.

These are not spurious questions folks. I'm sure some of you think I'm being all prissy asking for photos. This stuff breaks and it is a PITA when it does.

Filippo


nothing worse than having to replace a rod, can cause the need to redo the whole neck, sometimes a whole instrument.

here's the rods from WD
Image
Image
Image
Author:  Musiclogic [ Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
No Prob Fillippo, these are the basic 1/4" wide and 3/8" deep rods, and they have a few different sizes. I like these rods so far. I have only used 1 but they all look consistent. I recieved 8, I also have 8 of the blue wrapped rods coming from Martin Keith. I'll try to remember to take pics of those also.
Author:  Musiclogic [ Fri May 11, 2012 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
Finally got some more of the blue rods in, here is a group of the 20 I got that shows the welds. Here ya go Fillippo :mrgreen:

Image

these are very similar to the rods sold on Ebay by the guy from Dorr, Michigan These are made in the same factory that the Grizzly rods are, but these are about 1" longer than Grizzly's but just as heavy duty. Grizzly rods are exceptionally strong rods, I use them when I don't have these for bigger bass necks such as 6-7-8-9-10...etc.
Author:  hugh.evans [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
I'm actually preparing to make my own one piece, double acting truss rod within the next couple of weeks. Hot rods are a fine product, but I'm working with very thin profile necks. I will be thoroughly documenting the process and reporting the results. As long as it works as well as I expect the next project they will be used in is a 8 string with two rods... Which should be a fun experience.

Back to the original question: for your first build its very difficult to go wrong with a hot rod. It's one of the safest ways to get started and successfully create a working and adjustable neck. If you want to try something else down the road you always have the option... But there are plenty of pro builders who use hot rods and other pre-fabricated double acting rods. There is no good reason to use graphite reinforcement alone. No matter how perfectly you build a neck, once it is under tension you should have a way to adjust it. Otherwise you are sacrificing playability for no good reason.
Author:  FishtownMike [ Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trussrod preference - Allied or Stewmac's Hot Rod?
Filippo Morelli wrote:
This is the one I had looked at recently, which had caused me to ask about welds:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190525479098

Are all these blue ones made by the same folks? There are many sellers so I don't know if folks on this thread are all discussing the same truss rod?

Here's a photo for the above truss rod. That weld is mighty small - looks more like a tack. Worse off - there is no weld at metal to metal contact. That's a weld blob jumping the gap, giving the impression that something is held together well. Anyone here with professional welding experience will have concern with this - kind of like a blob of Titebond that touches two piece of wood that don't join. There is this frustrating concept called, "sheer". Nonetheless, it would not pass my QC.

Attachment:
bezdez.jpg


Truss rods seem to be a squirrelly subject. I'm now using mostly Martin double and Allied's rods (http://alliedlutherie.com/truss_rods.htm). The latter especially on electrics where my neck thickness at the first fret is very thin. Stew Mac's stuff was too thick for my application. There are other manufacturers. People seem to be concerned about breakage - shall we assume it occurs in the wild? Experience?

Here's a photo of the Allied rod welds:

Attachment:
Trussrod.jpeg


Filippo

I have noticed a few of these rods that also have the plastic wrap that covers the weld area so you can't see it or their photos are so small you can't make out any definition. Now this blue rod you show is from a Canadian seller. I have bought some electric parts from this guy and they were okay. Chinese made but okay. Now I have noticed lately that some of his rods have minimum welds and some have big sloppy welds and rust. I never bought rods from him though...Mike
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