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Broken Neck
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=34356		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  klooker [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Broken Neck
This is not an expensive guitar - an Asian clone (with Made In USA stamped on it) of a very popular guitar , enough said.

As you can see, the neck is broken and being held together by the fingerboard & truss rod.

Assuming I could get enough resin into the joint, do you think epoxy would work? I have some West Systems which is very thin & flows easily along with being incredibly strong.

I know epoxy is not the proper fix but the guitar isn't worth much. Just want to get it playable.

Thanks,
Kevin Looker
Author:  Chris Pile [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Just use Titebond.
It's cheaper than epoxy and it will work better.
Author:  WindyCityBluesBox [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
I would use titebond 3. Titebond 1 or 2 would probably work if you were able to completely fill the crack, but I assume that you will only be able to get glue into a small portion of it so I think you'll need the super strength of titebond 3
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
I'd use epoxy, it looks like you are going to need it for it's gap-filling properties, plus it looks ike you will be gluing the end grain as well. Epoxy is more of a structural adhesive than any of the titebonds.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Quote:
I'd use epoxy, it looks like you are going to need it for it's gap-filling properties, plus it looks ike you will be gluing the end grain as well. Epoxy is more of a structural adhesive than any of the titebonds.


Uh... no? It's a crack. It's not broken off.
Author:  klooker [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Thanks for the replies so far.

I was thinking epoxy because it's less viscous and should be easier to flow into the area and because of it's gap filling abilities.

On the other hand, Titebond is a lot easier to work with. None of the wood is missing so theoretically, I should be able to get a good tight joint which Titebond needs. I also have a vacuum pump which I'm thinking of rigging up to the truss rod access to try & suck the adhesive into the crack.

Undecided at this point.

Kevin Looker
Author:  klooker [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Oh, & BTW, the neck is more or less broken off, the fingerboard is holding it together.

Kevin Looker
Author:  dpm99 [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
If it were me, I'd lay an iron and a wet towel on top of the fingerboard on the body side of the break and work small things in there until the fingerboard released. Then I'd glue everything back into place.
Author:  klooker [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
dpm99 wrote:
If it were me, I'd lay an iron and a wet towel on top of the fingerboard on the body side of the break and work small things in there until the fingerboard released. Then I'd glue everything back into place.


Ok, but what type of adhesive would you use to put the neck back together with?


Kevin Looker
Author:  alan stassforth [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
I was thinking epoxy because it's less viscous.

Kevin Looker[/quote]

Epoxy glue is the most viscous,
I think that's why it fills gaps the best.
Hard to work into a small crevice.
Maybe thinned down tb-1 ?
Or flood with thin ca.
I ain't no expert.
I'd mask the surrounding areas well,
with whatever you use.
Author:  dpm99 [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
klooker wrote:
dpm99 wrote:
If it were me, I'd lay an iron and a wet towel on top of the fingerboard on the body side of the break and work small things in there until the fingerboard released. Then I'd glue everything back into place.


Ok, but what type of adhesive would you use to put the neck back together with?


Kevin Looker


Well, I'd use Titebond original, but I don't think that's the only choice. It's just what I like.
Author:  klooker [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
alan stassforth wrote:
Kevin Looker wrote:
I was thinking epoxy because it's less viscous.

Kevin Looker


Epoxy glue is the most viscous,
I think that's why it fills gaps the best.
Hard to work into a small crevice.
Maybe thinned down tb-1 ?
Or flood with thin ca.
I ain't no expert.
I'd mask the surrounding areas well,
with whatever you use.


West Systems 105/205 is very thin & runny. You have to add fillers to it if you have big gaps to fill. The hardened resin is pretty tough but it won't stay in place while it cures unless you contain it or add fillers to stiffen it.

The viscosity of freshly opened Titebond is probably less than that of 105/205 but the Titebond starts stiffening up pretty fast where the 105/205 stays the same for at least 15 minutes giving plenty of time to get it where it needs to go. It will also wick itself into a crack. Not as quickly as CA but I think it's a lot more substantial because the cured resin has structure.

Has anyone repaired a break like this? Maybe the better question is have any of you seen a guitar where someone tried to repair a break like this & it didn't work?
Author:  nyazzip [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
IF the trussrod wasn't a factor, OR appearances, i was thinking: cutting a 4-5 mm channel right into/following the break, maybe using a radial arm saw, then flooding everything with glue, and then inserting a 4-5 mm "wafer/section" of wood into to the channel. then trim the wafer to follow the neck profile....? seems like something like that might work, and be pretty strong. if you could remove the board and the trussrod, maybe .....
Author:  John Coloccia [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
klooker wrote:
Thanks for the replies so far.

I was thinking epoxy because it's less viscous and should be easier to flow into the area and because of it's gap filling abilities.

On the other hand, Titebond is a lot easier to work with. None of the wood is missing so theoretically, I should be able to get a good tight joint which Titebond needs. I also have a vacuum pump which I'm thinking of rigging up to the truss rod access to try & suck the adhesive into the crack.

Undecided at this point.

Kevin Looker


I think you'd run a significant risk of also gluing your truss rod...and if it's cracked all the way to the rod you run that risk anyway. Be careful when you glue it :)
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Folks, I've been repairing broken guitars since the mid-70's.
You are making this too hard - just glue the dang thing up with Titebond and you'll be good to go.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Titebond doesn't glue endgrain as well. Better to just use epoxy. Simple and effective. The truss rod will function as long as he doesn't glue the nut, and he's gluing far enough away.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Fine. I don't know a dang thing.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Chris Pile wrote:
Fine. I don't know a dang thing.


Who does?

Here's the forum procedure if you have a question:

1)Post a question
2)Get a sampling of all possible answers running the entire gamut of all possible procedures from thousands of possible luthiers.
3)Pick the answer that suits you best, it will most likely have the desired outcome, if executed properly and completely.


As a responder:

1)Answer the question to the best of your ability
2)Read all answers
3)Respond to all answers with the cons of the other answers and the pros of your own answer.
4)Repeat steps 2 and 3 until the Original Poster selects an answer that either works or doesn't, or until the thread gets beat to death.

No reason to get offended, I'm just following the rules. The rules aren't listed anywhere, they are found by trial and error.
Author:  Sandywood [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
It's probably of no matter but thought I'd share...

My first thought was a question- I wondered what fret location was the break.
The reason being, and please note that I am a beginner builder and not an
experienced wood craftsman, I thought it may be possible to not only glue it
but if it lined up with the 12th fret to install a couple of dowels for added strength.
Author:  dpm99 [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Sandywood wrote:
It's probably of no matter but thought I'd share...

My first thought was a question- I wondered what fret location was the break.
The reason being, and please note that I am a beginner builder and not an
experienced wood craftsman, I thought it may be possible to not only glue it
but if it lined up with the 12th fret to install a couple of dowels for added strength.

Even better, you could remove the fretboard, route channels for carbon fiber reinforcements around the break, and reglue. But I think Chris is onto something. Just squeeze in some Titebond and be done with it.
Author:  Sandywood [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
dpm99 wrote:
Sandywood wrote:
It's probably of no matter but thought I'd share...

My first thought was a question- I wondered what fret location was the break.
The reason being, and please note that I am a beginner builder and not an
experienced wood craftsman, I thought it may be possible to not only glue it
but if it lined up with the 12th fret to install a couple of dowels for added strength.

Even better, you could remove the fretboard, route channels for carbon fiber reinforcements around the break, and reglue. But I think Chris is onto something. Just squeeze in some Titebond and be done with it.



I have installed graphite rods and replaced fret dots- I haven't removed a fretboard yet.
I agree with the Titebond...I've sure been depending on it with my builds.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Sandywood wrote:
dpm99 wrote:
Sandywood wrote:
It's probably of no matter but thought I'd share...

My first thought was a question- I wondered what fret location was the break.
The reason being, and please note that I am a beginner builder and not an
experienced wood craftsman, I thought it may be possible to not only glue it
but if it lined up with the 12th fret to install a couple of dowels for added strength.

Even better, you could remove the fretboard, route channels for carbon fiber reinforcements around the break, and reglue. But I think Chris is onto something. Just squeeze in some Titebond and be done with it.



I have installed graphite rods and replaced fret dots- I haven't removed a fretboard yet.
I agree with the Titebond...I've sure been depending on it with my builds.


I use Titebond for all my electric builds. When you're building, the wood is usually oriented in a manner that works well with it, very rarely is endgrain glued to endgrain, as is the case with this particular neck break.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Quote:
Who does?


I do.

Quote:
The rules aren't listed anywhere, they are found by trial and error.


And I've done plenty of trial and error in over 30 years of repair work.
I know what works. PERIOD.

$100 says glue that baby up with Titebond and in 10 years it will still be playing great.

I'm done.
Author:  JimO [ Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
I second Chris Pile's response. Don't fool around with it too much. Just get the Titebond into it and clamp it down. You'll be amazed at how it will hold. Plus water cleanup so no mess left over.
Author:  klooker [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken Neck
Wow, I haven't checked this thread in a while.

My background is in engineering so I read all the tech crap which tells me to use epoxy.

Then I read Chris's replies which are backed by 30+ years of experience.

I'm going to try the Titebond. If it doesn't work, less of a mess to clean up than epoxy.

Thanks everyone for taking the time.

Kevin Looker
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