Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Build #2: The Silver Willow

Cool! I'm tuned in.
Love the fretboard!

Whoa, I can't wait to see this one get underway! I'm interested to see how you deal with the weight issue of the Cocobolo. So are you doing a middle layer of Zebrawood like you did the layer of maple on the dueling dragons guitar? What's your reasoning behind that?

Twice as complex as the D.D.?
You crazy!!!
Can't wait to see more.

Without knowing thedetails of what you are going to do, my guess is that if it weighs 10 pounds now, even if you knock 5 pounds off, the hardware and pickups will weigh 3 pounds at least, plus the neck, which probably weighs 2 pounds or more, being rosewood. I bet it still weighs close to ten pounds when you are finished.

BTW since the fretboard is still off, you can actually cut a tenon still, Les Paul style, if you desired.

Me thinks I'm going for a bolt-on.

Looking great, Virgil! I wouldn't be too concerned about the weight. Like a few have said, you're working with pretty heavy wood in the body and the neck (deliberately as you've said), so it's to be expected. And you're still at an early stage where a lot more wood is yet to be removed. I'm amazed by the weight difference every time I rout a control cavity. Everything adds up.

Just curious: are you sure the body wood you're working with is Cocobolo? The neck laminates definitely look like it, but the color of the body doesn't look anything like it to me. Of all the colors you mentioned that you see in it, I'd have expected red and orange to be the first two, and you didn't include them at all.

Also, hats off to you for working with Zebrawood. I can't stomach the smell. It's like standing in front of the manure pile at the zoo.

VirgilGuitar wrote:

Me thinks I'm going for a bolt-on.

Looks like the Padma is getting in all our heads.

Which local store did you get that from? No where I ever go has anything cool like that.

Yeah those last pictures look a bit more like it. Very brown though compared to most cocobolo. Maybe that's why they sold em for cheap, not the deep red/orange coco you see on a lot of stuff. Good deal on some good hardwood nonetheless.

The coco I got for my one-piece build is super deep red. Almost bloody. My favorite.

That padauk top is very attractive. Bright pink wood looks nice. It's especially curious what you're going to do for the weight considering the body is already glued up. I think I like this one better than your fist (so far).

In person these pieces have a LOT of neat colors. mostl yoranges and reds, some browns. Very attractive woods. Definitely Cocobolo, no mistake there at all.

What was the total weight so far on your build Mark?

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:40 am ]
Post subject:	Build #2: The Silver Willow
Over the past 3 or 4 months, I have been designing my second build, and actually got all the wood for guitars# 2, 3 & 4 a few weeks ago... The "Silver Willow" will have some pretty intense things going on, but 3 & 4 will be much less complex. Before everyone starts hammering me about the weight of the cocobolo, not to worry, wait till ya see what this rookie is going to do to this chunk of wood. Tony glued everything up for me once again, because of the access he has to a REALLY nice planer & drum sander, I then shipped of the skunk striped neck wood to Rick Penta, so he could CNC the neck to my specs. The neck was shipped back to me today - should see it by Monday. Highly figured Padauk bookmatched top, Zebrawood soundboard (Center layer) and Cocobolo body. If you were expecting something better than the dueling dragons... well, all I can say this will be twice as complex and should take a few months to complete. Stay tuned.

Author:	Mike Baker [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Cool! I'm tuned in. Love the fretboard!

Author:	Gabby Losch [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Whoa, I can't wait to see this one get underway! I'm interested to see how you deal with the weight issue of the Cocobolo. So are you doing a middle layer of Zebrawood like you did the layer of maple on the dueling dragons guitar? What's your reasoning behind that?

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Mike Baker wrote: Cool! I'm tuned in. Love the fretboard! Thanks Mike!

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Gabby Losch wrote: Whoa, I can't wait to see this one get underway! I'm interested to see how you deal with the weight issue of the Cocobolo. So are you doing a middle layer of Zebrawood like you did the layer of maple on the dueling dragons guitar? What's your reasoning behind that? Actually, the Maple on the 1st build was SUPPOSED to be the top, but I ended up having to cap it with ebony because of the exotic woods I was inlaying into the body would have sucked up the translucent dye I had originally intended. The Zebrawood is essential because of the design I am doing. The audience will see the Zebrawood and possibly the cocobolo from the front of the guitar. I am going mental with my dremel on this one Also the Zebrawood is MUCH thicker on this build than the Maple on the last. Thanks Gabby!

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Build #2: The Silver Willow http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=33070	Page 1 of 10

Author:	alan stassforth [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Twice as complex as the D.D.? You crazy!!! Can't wait to see more.

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
alan stassforth wrote: Twice as complex as the D.D.? You crazy!!! Can't wait to see more. Ha! Alan! I just got finished cutting out the headstock and putting on the laminate - was just thinking of taking pics - here we go again, right? LOL

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Ugggghhhh here are more pics.... hehehe Here was the rough cut I did a couple weeks ago at my friend Steve's shop: Here it is after the oscillating sander. The body here is 1/4" over, so I have room for possible blowouts when doing the body contour - here is the bookmatched Padauk top: JUST the body weight alone is currently a WHOPPING 10 LBS! Does anyone know what an "Average" electric guitar weight is supposed to be? I have some SERIOUS design things that should bring it down to almost half the current weight, so stay tuned! This is my first time working with cocobolo - I DID do research as to it's heavy weight and that it's used more for fretboards and also bodies for acoustic guitars, but because of the design elements I am planning on doing, I actually needed a VERY heavy wood and was looking for something dark, and interesting grain, with as many colors as possible, so this wood really fit the bill. I see black, brown, green, yellow and purples in this wood. It is absolutely beautiful. A true work of art from mother nature. Here is a nice shot of my candy looking laminate: Cocobolo, Zebrawood and Padauk top: For the past 2 days, I have been working on the headstock; I cut it out, then I routed it down, made a Padauk laminate with my Safe-T-Planer, glued it on, let dry for a day and just sanded everything down about an hour ago - here is what it all looks like so far: Of course the neck is the same materials as the body.... I am planning on EITHER routing out the neck pocket or moving on to the fretboard inlay - have not yet decided... hmmmmmm seeya soon! V

Author:	Mike Baker [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
That looks great! 10lbs, huh? That's almost in bass territory. Or Les Paul territory. IME, between 7-8lbs is about average for most completed electric guitars, with 8 being on the heavy side for most folk. However, as I mentioned before, there are exceptions, such as the Les Paul, which can be much heavier than that(mine was chambered and still weighed in around 8lbs). However, if I were you, i wouldn't worry too much about it. There are plenty of examples of heavy guitars out there. And the Padauk(spl?) and the Coco are both heavy woods. Besides, you said that you have a few tricks you're going to try that may lighten it. I'd build on, and let the end product be what it will be. MHO, of course. Looks great so far!

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Excellent Mike! That gives me a goal to shoot for - My guess is that it will be about 7 lbs and 14 ounces. Anyone want to start a pool? LOL

Author:	theguitarwhisperer [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Without knowing thedetails of what you are going to do, my guess is that if it weighs 10 pounds now, even if you knock 5 pounds off, the hardware and pickups will weigh 3 pounds at least, plus the neck, which probably weighs 2 pounds or more, being rosewood. I bet it still weighs close to ten pounds when you are finished.

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
theguitarwhisperer wrote: Without knowing thedetails of what you are going to do, my guess is that if it weighs 10 pounds now, even if you knock 5 pounds off, the hardware and pickups will weigh 3 pounds at least, plus the neck, which probably weighs 2 pounds or more, being rosewood. I bet it still weighs close to ten pounds when you are finished. Hehehe wait till you see what I actually do to it, you will understand why - it's why I chose cocobolo - I needed the extra weight, so it will be the weight of an average guitar by the time I am done with it.

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
theguitarwhisperer wrote: BTW since the fretboard is still off, you can actually cut a tenon still, Les Paul style, if you desired. Me thinks I'm going for a bolt-on.

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Have not yet put allot of thought into that, but was curios as to how good the the Golden Age overwound pups are from StewMac: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Pickups:_Guitar,_electric/Golden_Age_Overwound_Humbuckers.html I would like trying different things on these builds - so far the only thing the same is the 16" radius fretboard and of course my headstock(No plans to change that anytime) I am also wanting to go with a 3 way toggle and maybe separate mini toggles(2) for coil taps and a phase switch. I like having an arsenal of tones on a guitar. I will not be doing a tremolo bridge until build 4.

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Author:	Gabby Losch [ Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Looking great, Virgil! I wouldn't be too concerned about the weight. Like a few have said, you're working with pretty heavy wood in the body and the neck (deliberately as you've said), so it's to be expected. And you're still at an early stage where a lot more wood is yet to be removed. I'm amazed by the weight difference every time I rout a control cavity. Everything adds up. Just curious: are you sure the body wood you're working with is Cocobolo? The neck laminates definitely look like it, but the color of the body doesn't look anything like it to me. Of all the colors you mentioned that you see in it, I'd have expected red and orange to be the first two, and you didn't include them at all. Also, hats off to you for working with Zebrawood. I can't stomach the smell. It's like standing in front of the manure pile at the zoo. VirgilGuitar wrote: Me thinks I'm going for a bolt-on. Looks like the Padma is getting in all our heads.

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Gabby Losch wrote: Looking great, Virgil! I wouldn't be too concerned about the weight. Like a few have said, you're working with pretty heavy wood in the body and the neck (deliberately as you've said), so it's to be expected. And you're still at an early stage where a lot more wood is yet to be removed. I'm amazed by the weight difference every time I rout a control cavity. Everything adds up. Just curious: are you sure the body wood you're working with is Cocobolo? The neck laminates definitely look like it, but the color of the body doesn't look anything like it to me. Of all the colors you mentioned that you see in it, I'd have expected red and orange to be the first two, and you didn't include them at all. Also, hats off to you for working with Zebrawood. I can't stomach the smell. It's like standing in front of the manure pile at the zoo. VirgilGuitar wrote: Me thinks I'm going for a bolt-on. Looks like the Padma is getting in all our heads. Hi Gabby! Yeah, the design cuts are hopefully going to bring it down quite a bit - everyone who has held it so far almost fell over from the weight - I just wanted to know some average weights out there - I really LOVE the weight of the Dragons, but this is a different beast altogether. As for the Cocobolo, YES there are Reds and Oranges in there - I was in a local wood store a couple months back and they had these 2 huge boards - I think somewhere around 1 x 16 x 76 and they wanted about $130 and I couldn't resist - it was gorgeous - I was able to get enough wood out of it for a few fretboards, the sides of the neck and the body and still have some more leftover. SO, all of the Cocobolo you see on any of the photos for this build are from the same piece of wood! - the fretboard for this guitar looks like a sunset on the mountains as you can see below and the top side of the neck (When looking down when you are playing) is almost as dark as ebony. The contrast of the fretboard against the neck is stunning and looks like 2 different woods, but are all from the same piece. The pic below shows the contrasting colors - and the bolt-on idea will give me some knowledge in that arena as well! I am going into some crazy things over the next several weeks - can't wait to start cutting into it!

Author:	theguitarwhisperer [ Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Which local store did you get that from? No where I ever go has anything cool like that.

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
theguitarwhisperer wrote: Which local store did you get that from? No where I ever go has anything cool like that. That would be my friends down at Craftsmen Supply on Busch Blvd. (Alan, Reed & Gary) Lots of cool wood down there

Author:	Chameleon [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Yeah those last pictures look a bit more like it. Very brown though compared to most cocobolo. Maybe that's why they sold em for cheap, not the deep red/orange coco you see on a lot of stuff. Good deal on some good hardwood nonetheless. The coco I got for my one-piece build is super deep red. Almost bloody. My favorite. That padauk top is very attractive. Bright pink wood looks nice. It's especially curious what you're going to do for the weight considering the body is already glued up. I think I like this one better than your fist (so far).

Author:	theguitarwhisperer [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
In person these pieces have a LOT of neat colors. mostl yoranges and reds, some browns. Very attractive woods. Definitely Cocobolo, no mistake there at all.

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
Chameleon wrote: Yeah those last pictures look a bit more like it. Very brown though compared to most cocobolo. Maybe that's why they sold em for cheap, not the deep red/orange coco you see on a lot of stuff. Good deal on some good hardwood nonetheless. The coco I got for my one-piece build is super deep red. Almost bloody. My favorite. That padauk top is very attractive. Bright pink wood looks nice. It's especially curious what you're going to do for the weight considering the body is already glued up. I think I like this one better than your fist (so far). Yeah, I think the camera may be lacking in picking up all the colors on this wood - but it certainly has it's share of reds & yellows as well! What was the total weight so far on your build Mark? I can see the insane grain on your cocobolo compared to mine (so far) but I have not even started what I need to do to it, so give it some time bro - there is some serious grain hiding under that "flat surface" of the back of this guitar!

Author:	VirgilGuitar [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
theguitarwhisperer wrote: In person these pieces have a LOT of neat colors. mostl yoranges and reds, some browns. Very attractive woods. Definitely Cocobolo, no mistake there at all. Ha! It's nice having a second opinion in this neck of the woods - "The Guitar Whisperer" gave me some golden nuggets of advise when I visited him yesterday. Sorry to disappoint anyone out there, but I will be going back to my original idea for a set-neck. The bolt-on will be on either build #3 or 4. For anyone watching this build and wondering what I am doing next, well, I am still designing artwork for the inlay work for right now and then will be posting more pics as soon as I get something interesting enough to gander at. BTW, the guitarwhisperers strat body contours were really, really cool - can't wait to see that beast come alive.

Author:	Chameleon [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Build #2: The Silver Willow
VirgilGuitar wrote: What was the total weight so far on your build Mark? I don't have a scale but it is pretty heavy. All in all I think it will be doable though. Not so heavy that no one would ever wanna play it. Cheers!