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Placement of first pickup and harmonics
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=32855		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ricardo [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Placement of first pickup and harmonics
I've been told by a musician that on a two humbucker guitar, the first humbucker (polepieces) should be placed at the location of a harmonic (the same harmonic as on the 5th fret). Is this so? I'd never heard of this.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
Must be a reason you've never heard of it.....
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
That's not how Gibsons or PRS's are set up. Logic ought to conclude that if this were true then those companies that have made a million guitars would have stumbled across the concept along the way.

Les Pauls are set up with the pole piece about 1/4" off the harmonic. PRS even further when the guitar has 24 frets.
Author:  Ricardo [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
I checked my friend's ES-175 and you can play the same harmonic at the 5th fret as you can at the polepieces on the first PUP. Also checked my Stratocaster and its pole pieces on the first PUP are right on with the harmonic. Mine is off by 1/4" on my homemade archtop. Not that it matters. Its just something new to me.
Author:  alan stassforth [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
I used to put them on the harmonic,
but somebody here said the harmonic on the 5th fret is not as loud as when the pup is right on the harmonic.
He was right, so, since I like harmonics,
I am shifting my pickups about a quarter inch off the harmonic.
Only a very slight diff though....
Author:  nyazzip [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
harmonics are nodes where the string doesn't vibrate much at all....so, i imagine less voltage would be generated at that location, because the string is not vibrating back and forth as much over the pole piece, hence the volume level/pickup output should be lower under a harmonic node
i always thought the neck pickup on my strat was placed right under an octave node, but i just doublechecked and it is offset about a quarter inch, as others have said
Author:  WindyCityBluesBox [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
After looking at my guitars, I think that with any 22 fret guitar, the harmonic will be between 1/4 in. and 1/8 in. in front of the poles. If you want to get the poles RIGHT under, you might have to go with 21 frets or at least try to cut away that extra 5/8 in. or so of the fretboard that remains after the last fret. I would play it safe and build for 21 frets if you want to try getting the poles right under the harmonic. Also, measure twice cut once (I dont want you to ruin a guitar by taking my advice if my advice is for any reason incorrect [:Y:] ) -Alex
Author:  Chris Pile [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
Anyone remember Dan Armstrong's guitar with the sliding pickup?
Make yourself one from a cheapo Fender or Gibson copy and find out for yourself.
Then file a report here!
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
nyazzip wrote:
harmonics are nodes where the string doesn't vibrate much at all....so, i imagine less voltage would be generated at that location, because the string is not vibrating back and forth as much over the pole piece, hence the volume level/pickup output should be lower under a harmonic node


Not exactly.

On an open, plucked string...your statement is true but only with regard to the first, third, fifth....ect. harmonics. The fundamental, however, is vibrating at its greatest amplitude right at the middle of the string. Think about what happens when you pluck a harmonic at the 12th fret. You have to lightly place your finger at the mid point on the string and pluck to get the harmonic to ring out. When you do this you are preventing the fundamental from vibrating and instead are isolating the first harmonic.

The main point in all of this is that when the string is fretted and the fulcrum adjusts as a result...any pickup placement attempting to exploit a particular position relative to a harmonic is moot...because even if there there really was an ideal pickup position, there would have to be 22 of them...one for each note.
Author:  Ricardo [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
Alex, my guitar has 20 frets and the harmonic seems to be 1/4" south of the pole pieces which places it over the humbucker - the pole pieces closest to the end of the fingerboard.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
Quote:
because even if there there really was an ideal pickup position, there would have to be 22 of them...one for each note.


^^^ This is wisdom. ^^^
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
Zlurgh is correct.
The idea behind this myth is that Gibson discovered the "perfect" spot for the neck pickup, and therefore, you should NEVER build a guitar with 24 frets, since that moves the pickup from the "sweet spot" derived by Gibson, when they "purposely" placed the pickup under that particular harmonic node.
The reality is, that just happens to be the spot the pickup lands when you make a guitar with 22 frets and place the pickup at the end of the fretboard.
It is also true that if you play the open harmonic above the pickup, on either end of the fretboard (each open harmonic appears in two spots when you play it, except the octave harmonic of course), while that pickup is the only activated pickup, the harmonic will be extremely subdued, and may disappear completely.
If you want all you harmonics, natural or artifical, to ring out, you should have two pickups activated, so the one will catch what the other misses.
There is no magical sweet spot for pickup placement. I think 24 fret models sound as good as 22 fret models.
Author:  Jeff Highland [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
It's less of an issue with a humbucker equiped guitar, because it picks up it's signal from a wider area. With a single coil like the original telecaster which had its neck pickup directly under the 24th, you won't get a 5th fret harmonic coming through with neck pickup only
One of the artist models had a different location for the neck pickup to avoid this
Author:  Brett L Faust [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Placement of first pickup and harmonics
Jeff Highland wrote:
It's less of an issue with a humbucker equiped guitar, because it picks up it's signal from a wider area. With a single coil like the original telecaster which had its neck pickup directly under the 24th, you won't get a 5th fret harmonic coming through with neck pickup only
One of the artist models had a different location for the neck pickup to avoid this


Jerry Donahue model has a strat pickup moved about 1/2" toward the bridge.
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