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Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=32057		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  aznricey [ Sun May 01, 2011 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
This is a project guitar I put together and it plays fine and everything but there are a few problems that i need to get solved... You can see the problem at the video or the link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9FcUdkSm_M
http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f21/my-pr ... 08141.html

Since the tremolo cavity is too deep which makes it hard to change strings and visually see if the floyd is flush while setting up, I've decided to sand the whole body (might as well get a new paint job too 8-) ) and this is the result.
Image
I started out from the back to be safe, and it took me quite a lot of work to get the paint off(I used 60 grit, and will use finer grit once i see most black color gone), now i aim to level down the trem cavity... that's going to be A LOT of work... so does anyone have any suggestions for ways i could shave down the body? And how is my sanding job so far?
Author:  hugh.evans [ Sun May 01, 2011 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
Sanding is definitely the hard way to get down to bare wood. I *highly* recommend getting a flat cabinet scraper, then you can get that old finish off within a couple of hours. Otherwise, you're making good progress. It appears the adjustment screws on your floyd are cranked all the way in, if you have to take them in that far just to achieve the right action what you really need is to shim the neck. My guess is 1 to 2° will be more than enough to get the bridge where you want it.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sun May 01, 2011 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
Can you be more specific about the problems you're having with the Floyd?
I'm sure I can give you some tips.
Author:  aznricey [ Sun May 01, 2011 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
Thanks for the tip Mr. Hugh i've never actually thought about that. I actually got the body with those screws down there since the beginning, and i have no idea how to dig them back out or heighten them... Second thing is, I woudn't mind shimming the neck but i will actually look redicoulous and i just want to say that i have already shimmed my neck to quite some height(with business cards) haha.

To summarize my problem again:

1.trem cavity... The whole floyd rose sunk in. Was a pain to set up!
Image < Look at that lol You can't even see the side of the floyd!

2. If possible, a better way to sand down the body (not just to remove the paint, but getting the trem cavity to NOT be as deep)

3. This I can see coming up eventually. All the contour and sides may be difficult to sand, I am actually thinking of shoving a "sand paper wrapped dowel" onto a power drill and have someone hold the sides and i'll just sand it down like so lol It actually sounds really risky but if it fails i'd have to do it by hand =(

4. Lastly concern (not really a question), assuming i am "making good progress" as Mr. hugh pointed out, i'm really hoping i am. I'd hate to create little bumps here and there in the end haha. I plan on applying a veneer ontop of it, so this thing needs to be really flat. I'm having second thoughts due to my lack of experience and skills, but iwe'll see :P
Author:  hugh.evans [ Sun May 01, 2011 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
Perhaps I'm not seeing clearly enough in your picture, but I'm assuming those are hex nuts on your bridge posts for adjustment. As long as you use the shims to adjust neck angle, not just height, it shouldn't look ridiculous. The concept of sanding down the entire body just to improve bridge clearance doesn't sound like the right way to fix it. To get a sufficiently flat surface you need to at least be using good flat sanding blocks (I flatten mine using an A grade surface plate). Have you considered how you're going to apply the veneer?
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sun May 01, 2011 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
You do realize the vibrato didn't actually sink in?
It was recessed into the face of the guitar on purpose?
Do you have any allen wrenches to adjust the screws in and out?

Business cards are OK for shim stock.
Why do you think you'll look ridiculous?

Sanding the body thinner may have other consequences you didn't want or plan on.
Are you just trying to remove the finish for a repaint?
Author:  John Coloccia [ Sun May 01, 2011 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
re: shimming

You only shimmed at the front of the neck pocket, right? I mean, you're not shimming the entire neck up and down, are you? The goal is to change the angle. Apologies if you're already doing it right.

re: changing the strings
I just push on the trem to get access to the bolts. That's really not all that abnormal. There's ways to block it when you change the strings but I think it's far more trouble than it's worth. That's just my opinion, though.
Author:  aznricey [ Sun May 01, 2011 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
wow thanks for all the responses! To answer one by one...

1. Veneer plan: http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/veneer.htm < Exact same veneer plan

2. The purpose of sanding was mainly for a new paint job (customizing for the sake of customizing + amusing haha) Any other ways to fix the sunken floyd will be appreciated

3. If simply raising the bridge posts (raise floyd) and shimming the neck will help, i'll definitely try it out. My original "businesss card shim" does a a bit of an angle. It consist of a 2 rectangle and 1 square at the lower side of the pocket I think.

So what are some recommended angles on the shim? Are there any indicators of "sucess" i should look for? I think i'm actually going to test drive you guys' idea on the shimming right after the sanding is done. I haven't actually done any planning on the veneer yet. I'm just starting to look for places on veneers in my local lumber stores... Again thanks so much in advance, will keep everyone updated =)
Author:  hugh.evans [ Sun May 01, 2011 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
I would only apply veneer with that method if I wanted it to separate/blister. Use Titebond Original or Titebond Extend, I wrote up a nice procedure for iron-on veneering and have it on my computer at work. I'll post it here tomorrow unless you're interested in building a vacuum press or talking a cabinet/millwork shop into allow you to use theirs.

Adjusting the height of your tremolo will make it appear flush with the body as it should. Shims should be added to deepest part of the neck pocket (the side closest to the bridge) until appropriate action is reached. A little bit of trig goes a long way here. Then correct relief as needed with the truss rod.
Author:  aznricey [ Thu May 05, 2011 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
Please do post it if you can. That link was the only resource i found that's why i plan on sticking to it. I only have the horn left to sand now, it's coming pretty alright! There are a few spots on the edge where i got too greedy and sanded excessively =(
Author:  Sheldon Dingwall [ Fri May 06, 2011 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
It's too late now but the trick to setting up a floating Floyd is to temporarily block the trem (from the back) using a wedged shape block (narrow enough to fit between the springs). Tighten the springs up a bit then slide the wedge between the body and the Floyd block until the bridge is back to it's normal position (you can use a tuner to gauge this). Do your adjustments, lock and re-tune, then remove the block and loosen the springs until the guitar is back in tune.

It sounds like a PIA but it's a whole lot faster than trying to work on the bridge while it's floating.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Fri May 06, 2011 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanding guitar body + paint (raise floyd rose)
If anyone still has access to the old "String Instrument Craftsman" newsletter published by "Guitar Player" magazine years ago (does ASIA have them now?), I wrote several articles about setting up Floyds and Kahlers back when metal ruled the world. Maybe someone remembers them?
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