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Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
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Author:  Bojangles [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Neckthru + solid Spalt body (no wings) is it possible?

Basically I’m looking at getting a custom guitar designed with the following features; Neckthru design, solid spalt body without wings.

The reason why is, i want the tonal and tuning stability of neckthru, while maintain a visually appealing yet tonally deficient spalt body (Note , I don’t really like veneers). Additionally, i don’t want a big ugly neckthru running visually down the centre of the guitar.

I figure the only way to do this (without a veneer) is to route a channel through the back of solid spalt body to fit the neck through while maintaining a nice undisturbed face and highly curved and tapered body.

Side note, the reason I don’t like veneers is because you get a big ugly grainy sideto the guitar (well from what I’ve seen) and seem to have a limited ability to curve a veneer around a highly curved and tapped body

My question is, how feasible is this?

Would glue be sufficient for joining the base to the neck, or would it need to be doweled.

If you can construct a guitar like this, do you think I would be losing the benefit of the neckthru with the fitting of a solid spalt body to neckthru in this unusual way?

Thanks in advance for any response.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalt body (no wings) is it possible?
I assume you mean spalted maple?
Author:  Bojangles [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalt body (no wings) is it possible?
Sorry, i do mean spalted maple
Author:  cactus [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Hi. I'm new at this and I think it would depend on the type of wood. I've purchase 3 different spalted maple boards and they differed greatly. There appear to be varying degrees of "rot" in them. The first board feels like balsa wood and crumbles into my hand. This would certainly not be sufficient for supporting any sort of weight. My other spalts have more integrity to them.

You want a U-shaped body that glues onto your neck-thru core? (almost like the way aluminum guitars come together?)
Author:  Bojangles [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Yup that’s what i envisaged, Ushape route that glues (maybe doweled) on to a neckthru core.

That way (hopefully) id get the best of both worlds, a sturdy tonal guitar, that looks great.

Though i had no idea that spalted maple could be so flimsy, though i guess it’s not surprising considering its rotted wood
Author:  alan stassforth [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Interesting design concept,
if I got what yer saying right.
I would make the through neck,
make the body,
then, let the neck into the body from the back.
From the back, you would see the neck running through,
but from the top, you wouldn't see the neck running through.
Thank you for posting this.
I might try that out someday.
Oh, you should work out the neck angle thing first.
Author:  Bojangles [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Thanks for your reply and interest.

If you ever do make one, post the pics :)

I think the advantages would be (if you could get it to work), would be the stability of the neck-through plus the aesthetics of your favourite figured wood.

Though I’m a little worried about the join, as I’m not sure whether wings are usually doweled or just glued, as the join in the situation might compromise sustain and tone if it’s not joined appropriately

However the beauty in the case is that the bridge/tailpiece (or string through) would essentially be attached to the neck

I’m hoping (if I get some relatively positive feedback) to get some custom-shop or an expert like ed roman to build me one, though I thought id pass it around a couple of forums to get some opinions to identify potential fundamental flaws in the idea before bugging a commercial builder with a request
Author:  cactus [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Sounds like you're underestimating the strength of the glue bond.. You shouldn't! There's a chance the spalted maple will crumble before the glue join breaks. Kinda like if you doweled a loaf of bread to a tree... Biscuit joins seem to be the drug of choice for the neck thru guys.

Also you could put a spalted maple cap (Les Paul thickness) on top of a sturdier wood. Would give you enough room to do a carve.

Good luck.
Author:  Bojangles [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Yeah i guess i am underestimating glue, Gibson’s have glue on necks and seem sort of stable

After doing some more research I’ve figured out the neck join I’m thinking of is actually called a set-through, you learn something new every day.

So i figure spalted maple body with a Full set-thru neck isn’t all that big of deal, well depending on the strength of the spalted maple, i wouldn’t like a big chunk of the body just to drop off
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Quote:
Yeah i guess i am underestimating glue, Gibson’s have glue on necks and seem sort of stable


As a former Authorized Gibson Repair Center guy, I can tell you some of Gibson's necks are lucky to be staying in place. Most have plenty of glue to remain stable even with hard handling, but quite a few had maybe less than a square inch of actual contact in the neck pocket. So, be generous with the glue and make sure you have lots of wood to wood contact between both surfaces.

Do it right (and well) the first time!
Author:  lespaul123 [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
I have done a few electrics that match your description I think. I made my big neck blank, cut the headstock angle. After I cut the headstock angle I would then cut the neck angle with an angle jig and a table saw. After all of that I determined my top and back thicknesses. Once I had those dimensions I would cut the offset of the top thickness out of my neck blank. Then I would glue on the "wings", sand it and glue on the top. Bandsaw yer shape and carve away. Here is one of the guitars I made this way.

Image

Image
Author:  Bojangles [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Hi chris,

Yeah i have an sg, which has hte softest neck of any guitar ive ever owned, which is why im looking at neck/set through, im just dont trust glue on/bolt on necks anymore

Hi Lespaul123,

Nice guitar!

Though was that a neck-Thru, or a set-thru, ie any talk of wings sound like a neck-thru.

Basically i want to (get someone to) carve a neck slot out of a body, so leaving the face of the body intact, and having the stability of a neck through the back of the guitar.
Author:  lespaul123 [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
With this type of build, what is your plan for the electronics routing? I think this style is interesting, but I am not sure if the amount of extra effort will be equally beneficial, putting aside the aesthetic benefits.
Author:  alan stassforth [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
I don't think some of you here understand the design he is talking about.
He doesn't want a cap, but a full piece of wood for the body, or 2 piece, looking the same
on the sides.
Hopefully doesn't care about the back neck thru being seen.
I think this could be a very good design for a neck thru,
with a mushy spalted body.
Only problem I see is finding a piece of wood for the body that is thick enough.
Most spalted wood available is for a cap only.
Author:  lespaul123 [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
I was thinking about this today at work a little. Maybe you could get yourself a thick piece of spalted maple and resaw the billet to a thickness that is thicker than your desired body thickness. Then cut your top out of your resawn body blank pieces. After that then cut the body blank pieces narrower to accommodate for the neck width. Glue on the body blank "wings", machine the electronics cavities, and glue on the top so that the grain matches. If you were to do this you would have to be very careful about saw kerfs because the grain may change enough where you could notice. I think this way you will make gluing in the neck and the whole electronics deal easier. What do you think?

Rob
Author:  tlguitars [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
I've built a couple of guitars that way. Worked fine. So yes, it's possible... Anything is with wood.

If glue is good enough to hold the wings onto a traditional neck through body it's good enough to hold basically a back plate, your thicker piece of spalted maple (which is still a veneer... It's just not a thin veneer it's thick with built in wings) means your basically just wanting a Set neck with a long tenon and a large back cap. The hard part is neck/ body angle. So in reality your wanting a cheated neck through/ set neck. Adding all that extra weight to the back will negate some of the traditional neck-thru tone sustain. Your putting a big damper plate on and removing the neck bulk that would be there to help sustain the tone. Not the best example but think of a tuning fork, and now cut off one of the tone bars... it's kind'a what you're wanting. We make aesthetic choices all the time.

This is totally possible but the builder has to be smart about it. The problem is your joint has to perfectly square and your neck and body angle have to built into eith the back plate or the neck and that has to be perfect because unlike a traditional neck-through build there is no ability to adjust the thicknesses to correct the angle.

Not all spalted Maple is mushy. The user just has to know how to use it.

Big pieces of Spalt are easy to find, there are tons on ebay right now. Just search for table top size.
http://cgi.ebay.com/WILD-Extra-Thick-Silver-Maple-Spalted-Burl-Slab-031127-/170617023069?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b9912a5d#ht_3133wt_810
http://cgi.ebay.com/Blackline-Spalted-Maple-Lumber-Furniture-Art-Blank-24-/390298368644?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adf987a84#ht_500wt_827
http://cgi.ebay.com/WIDE-Natural-Edge-Slab-Spalted-Maple-Coffee-Table-WOW-/330528288503?pt=US_Tables&hash=item4cf5056ef7

Good luck making your wants a reality, it's the best part about having "your own" custom guitar built the way you want it!
Author:  helldunkel [ Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Bojangles wrote:
Neckthru + solid Spalt body (no wings) is it possible?
The reason why is, i want the tonal and tuning stability of neckthru, while maintain a visually appealing yet tonally deficient spalt body (Note , I don’t really like veneers).


This is total non sens... [clap]

-How can you say that a neckthru has improved tone and stability?
-How can you say that spalted maple is tonally deficient?

Check this out! Here are all the benefits of the "warm and muddy mahogany" built like a bolt-on neck but set-in, OMG that must sound horrible, dead and muddy as hell!!!!! eek

Image
Image

And here comes the taboo article which I wrote a couple months ago (things that those big guitar factory marketing guys who enjoy making you believe non sens, romance and poetry do not want you to read), enjoy :)

http://www.hufschmidguitars.com/SoundandSpecies.pdf
Author:  alan stassforth [ Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Thank you, Patrick, for writing your opinions on tone woods for electric guitars.
I've built with koa, maple, mahog, doug fir, and even redwood, for the bodies.
I've never done a side by side, same exact build, with different woods,
so I can't really say what's what,
but, I THINK the most important wood, for tone, on an electric, is in the neck. beehive
I believe the pickups are the most important factor in the tone, 95 percent of it?
I do like the o.p. design idea, and might try that out,
someday...
Alan
Author:  Bojangles [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Thanks guys for all your insite, now all i have to do is find someone who can build it. I was thinking about one fo the major brand custom shops, amybe jackson or fender.

Im going to get seymour duncan to make me up a custom set of Zephyr Silver pickups (just for the fun of it)

hey what are your opinions on laminated vs quatersawn necks?
Author:  Gabby Losch [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Bojangles wrote:
Im going to get seymour duncan to make me up a custom set of Zephyr Silver pickups (just for the fun of it)


Kidding?.....I hope? $1200 for a pair of humbuckers doesn't appeal to me
Author:  Bojangles [ Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neckthru + solid Spalted maple body (no wings)... possible?
Yeah, at the price they would be an acquired taste... Though that price would be small to the overall build cost of this guitar
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