Official Luthiers Forum!
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=31278		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mike Baker [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
I've been working on my second scratch build for about 6 months now(off and on when weather permits). Today it officially became fire wood.
Attachment:
DCFC0005.JPG
Attachment:
DCFC0006.JPG

I was trying to rout the control cavity deeper in order to be able to use standard pots instead of long shaft. I also needed it deeper in order to install a three way switch. Taking into account the top carve I shimmed one side of the control cavity template, trying to get an angle on the bottom of the cavity so i could get the top an even thickness, but went right on through on one side. gaah gaah gaah
Oh well, this is the first true carve top I've ever done, and there's a learning curve. The body was cut from a maple cutting board, so at least I routed through on something I could afford the mistake on. I've made a lot of mistakes on this one, and fixed most of them. However, I'm not competent to fix this one. I really did learn a lot on this one, and even though it's toast I think I came out ahead. Guess it's off to find me some better wood(I'm thinking walnut), and start over. At least the weather is starting to look good for building.
Author:  Gabby Losch [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Mike,

I'm really sorry to hear about your guitar. It's absolutely one of the most frustrating things I've encountered, when you finally have to give in and toss a project into the scrap pile. I've had to give up on some really nice pieces of wood, and some things that took months of time and really hard work. It's a crap feeling, but one we all go through in this type of work. The only thing you can do is chalk it up to the learning curve and accept that everyone goes through it. If you never make any mistakes, you're either doing something wrong, or you're cheating.

Just keep plowing through and don't get discouraged. It's too easy to give up at these points. I nearly did when I lost $150 worth of Cocobolo last summer because of humidity changes. Your #3 will be much better off thanks to any mistakes you made in #2.

-Gabby
Author:  Mike Baker [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Gabby Losch wrote:
Mike,

I'm really sorry to hear about your guitar. It's absolutely one of the most frustrating things I've encountered, when you finally have to give in and toss a project into the scrap pile. I've had to give up on some really nice pieces of wood, and some things that took months of time and really hard work. It's a crap feeling, but one we all go through in this type of work. The only thing you can do is chalk it up to the learning curve and accept that everyone goes through it. If you never make any mistakes, you're either doing something wrong, or you're cheating.

Just keep plowing through and don't get discouraged. It's too easy to give up at these points. I nearly did when I lost $150 worth of Cocobolo last summer because of humidity changes. Your #3 will be much better off thanks to any mistakes you made in #2.

-Gabby

Thanks, Gabby.
This is exactly how I'm looking at this. I learned a great deal, and I learned it on wood that cost me nothing but sweat and blood, which is what any piece of wood I choose to work with will cost me. It was definately worth the months I spent working on it, and I do believe that lessons learned here will make me a better builder on the next one.
One thing I wonder, though. You read on the forums about how many guitars this buider or that one has under his belt. I wonder how many they worked on never made it to completion, and how much of the knowledge we build up comes from the ones no one ever sees.
Author:  Mike Baker [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Fillipo, thanks for that. I thought about repairing it. But I'm not certain i could make this repair. I'm working with mostly hand tools, although I do have a router. I'm not certain i could fabricate a patch or plug that fit well enough to get a decent glue joint. Most of the wood I replaced it with would be routed away from the back, and carved away from the top, and I can't see any way to clamp the patch even if I somehow managed to fabricate one. I'd rather trash the guitar than have the patch fall out later because i didn't get a good glue bond.
I've repaired mistakes a couple of times already. If you look closely at the second pic in my first post you'll see one of them. If i thought i was capable of a good, solid repair on this one, i'd definately do it. I have not thrown it in the trash yet, so if I keep rolling it over in my head and think of a way, I'll certainly attempt it.
Author:  Mike Baker [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Thanks for the encouragement, Filippo. I've been mulling it over in my head all of last night and the rest of this morning, and have decided you're right. I've got nothing to lose if I try, and who knows, even if I fail I may still learn something. I've got plenty of scrap maple from the off cuts of the body to work with.
Author:  Gabby Losch [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Another idea is to accentuate that area rather than try to cover it up and make it blend in. If you have some contrasting wood lying around, maybe something darker like walnut, make a slightly oversized version of the control cavity and glue it on top of the body in that spot, like a wooden pickguard of sorts, then mount all the controls to it just like you would have before. I think I've seen something like that done, and in my mind at least it would look really cool. The hardest part would be matching the underside of the piece to the carve of the body, but with some patience you could definitely do it.

You were right, Filippo, I was waaaay too easy on Mike! Keep at it!
Author:  Mike Baker [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Gabby Losch wrote:
Another idea is to accentuate that area rather than try to cover it up and make it blend in. If you have some contrasting wood lying around, maybe something darker like walnut, make a slightly oversized version of the control cavity and glue it on top of the body in that spot, like a wooden pickguard of sorts, then mount all the controls to it just like you would have before. I think I've seen something like that done, and in my mind at least it would look really cool. The hardest part would be matching the underside of the piece to the carve of the body, but with some patience you could definitely do it.

You were right, Filippo, I was waaaay too easy on Mike! Keep at it!

Gee, thanks alot Gabby!
Actually, I don't think it's a matter of being easy or hard on me. Both of you responded positively to my situation, and I do appreciate it a lot. Truth be told, though, i would probably have stared at that guitar for a few days and ultimately decided to attempt a repair anyway. But I am grateful for the encouragement. That's why I'm here. there are a lot of great people on this forum, with a wide range of experience. I appreciate the different viewpoints, and i hope I'm always humble enough to take the advice offered in the spirit in which it's given. I have a lot to learn, and i know it. This is one of the best places to be for me to do just that.
Author:  Robbie_McD [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Keep us posted - looking forward to the resolution!
Author:  alan stassforth [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Hey Mike, bummer.
I would definitely try to fix that though.
I would do what Filippo said, but I would make a jig,
out of 1/4'' or 1/2" ply, large enough to clamp to the body,
12"x12" or so, with an oval or square cutout bigger than the boo-boo.
Then use a 1/2" upper bearing router bit to make a nice cutout,
then carefully shape a piece of maple to fit.
Pm me if you want an explanation of the jig.
Alan.
Author:  tlguitars [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
I did that to this guitar. Pick a color and away you go. Your a real builder now.
http://www.tlguitars.com/SiteFiles/html/Electrics.html
Author:  Al Salo [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Man that really sux's sorry that happened. I have fears of cutting through to the trus rod cavity when I do the necks of my builds, scares me to death. beehive
Author:  Chas Freeborn [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
It happens. Don't throw good time after bad. Say a prayer or a toast, pitch it into the fireplace and move on.
-C
Author:  Mike Baker [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Al Salo wrote:
Man that really sux's sorry that happened. I have fears of cutting through to the trus rod cavity when I do the necks of my builds, scares me to death. beehive

Al, i know that fear. Even though I know the depth of the rout and chase the neck shaping with calipers to make sure, it's still nerve wracking. This rout was as well, and it turns out, with good reason. Once I repair it, I'm going to try again to get the thickness I want under the pots. If I go through again I'll be chucking it. Literally.
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Amen....anyone can make a silk purse out of silk.

It takes craftmanship and experience to make one from a sow's ear.
Author:  Chas Freeborn [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that this is/was to be a natural finished instrument. If so, and based on the photo I'd say the only way to do a repair that's not glaringly obvious is to cut off the whole "lower bout" and start over. When you've put that much effort into it I don't see the economy of time. It's just a slab of wood...If you're going to paint it, well go ahead and sling some bondo and keep going.
The most valuable lesson here is how to refine the building method, and especially the sequence of steps. For example, I realize we're all anxious to get to the "fun" part of building (carving arched tops, etc) but had you done the routing first, then drilled the control holes, as you were doing the arching you would have been able to see exactly how much material you had to work with before going through. In 35+ years of making stuff it's I've found that getting the sequence of events correct makes for a smooth project.
-C
Author:  Mike Baker [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
I had planned to attempt a burst finish, but that wasn't written in stone. As to the order of steps, if I'd routed the control cavity first, I'd probably have ended up going through when I did the top carve, lol. Either that, or I still would have ended up having to deepen the rout after the carve was completed, running the same risk. Experience is something I lack, and i'm pretty sure i'd have made a mistake, no matter which way I went about it. If I repair it, i get another shot at attempting to rout the control cavity to the proper depth. I'd say that's worth a couple of hours work on the repair, if for no other reason than I get another shot at getting that process right before actually attempting it on better or more expensive wood. But I understand your reasoning, and agree with it to a large extent. And if I was a pro, building for others, I'd toss it and move on. But there's a learning opportunity here, and I'm going to take it.
Author:  Chas Freeborn [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
That's a good attitude to have. The next one will be better, and you'll be glad you went through the process.
Do give some thought to thinking a few steps ahead and not being over anxious. It's like a good billiards player setting up the table for a run. It's a great feeling when it all falls into place.
-C
Author:  JasonMoe [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Do like the big guitar companies do. Bondo it. Paint it an opaque color. Put 30 coats of clear over it. Did someone say Sunburst?
Author:  Mike Baker [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Well, number two is now officially fire wood!
Thanks, Filippo and Chas(and every one else).
Chas, one of the benefits of attempting repairs of my mistakes(of which I've made several) is the thinking process. I flip the repair over and over in my head before I attempt it. I also do that during the build process. But there are times when the plan I have is wrong, and I don't realize it until it's too late. That's what happened here. The carve is 4/16" deep, but the shim I used for the control rout was only 2/16". and I forgot the rout extended to the carve on the butt end of the guitar. I can't even remember why I thought it would work now, lol. I just know i was wrong. Next time around my shim will be at least 5/16", and I won't forget to shim both the front edge and the butt of the guitar. i really need to measure the threaded portion of a 3 way toggle switch, so i know just how thick I need the top of the guitar over the controls to be. I did a lot of guess work. Wrong move. And I also think that my lockdown for my router(plunge base) wasn't as secure as it should have been. I'll definately check all of those factors again before I rout. Here are a couple of pics of the repair in progress. since the leftover pieces of wood I had were small, and I had to orient the wood a certain way to get a patch the right size, and since this is going to be a solid color, I did not worry about grain orientation.
Attachment:
DCFC0009.JPG

Attachment:
DCFC0010.JPG

Attachment:
DCFC0011.JPG

Filippo, i certainly hope the wood dust and glue trick works well, because I'm gonna need it. As far as pickups, pretty much all of my builds will have cheap pickups in them. If I finally build "the one" it's real easy to replace things like hardware and pickups. Until then, i'll be doing things as cheaply as possible(without compromising build quality), so my cash can go as far as possible, and i can build, build, build. Learning to build to the best of my ability is #1 right now. That's all about the woods and the construction techniques. When my builds are worthy of better hardware and electronics it''ll be easy to move up to them.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/