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Very newbie asking stupid questions
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=25427		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Elias Kfoury [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Very newbie asking stupid questions
Hey Everyone, I'm Elias from Brazil, and I'm trying to start build electric guitars (not for working as a luthier, just for my own use). Unfortunely, here in my town we have no luthier teatcher or something, it's a shame, but, I'm trying the hard way: alone!
So, I want so much if you guys can give me some startup tips like something I have to care about, etc.

Anyway, there's the first questions I have in my bery first project, with almost no knowledge.

. I'm starting buying unfinished body and neck, and doing the cavities, holes, installing the pickups and the electrics. It's ok to get started and familiar with the instruments?
. The first guitar (a naked telecaster model, with 2 humbuckers and tune-o-matic bridge) - is wrong, and I'll try to fix it - actually I've put the bridge +- 0,5cm away from the nut, and it does not tune D, A and E. So, my question is: what's the best way to go: open a big hole inside, fill it with some wood and make the cavities and the holes again? Should I just put a pickguard and be happy? Or am I losing another idea here?
. Other issue is that I didn't know that a tune-o-matic bridge is taller than a tele bridge, so it will be wrong again, cause my neck is glued... should I put a tele bridge or make a cavity for the bridge (so it will be lower)?
. The body glue is broken: what is the best glue I can use to fix it.

I know it's a lot of questions, I know my english is so bad, and I know is boring to help some newbie like me, but I really loved the works I've seen here, you guys really know what you're doing.

Thanks a lot (here's some pictures of this piece of junk (I mean, my first guitar :roll:
Author:  LanceK [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
Hi Elias

First, no such thing as a dumb question! [:Y:]
Any and ALL questions from ALL levels of builders are welcomed here at the OLF.

Now, I am not an electric builder so I will defer your inquires to those that are, but please dont
hesitate to ask!

best
Lance
Author:  Elias Kfoury [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
Thanks a lot, Lance! It's good to know I can count on this kind of treatment! very different than that forum we have here... :o
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
Elias-
Welcome to the OLF!
I'm not much of a builder of electrics- only one, many years ago. You will get some more expert opinions soon.

About recessing the bridge into the top. This can be done, and looks great as well, IMO. You do have to worry about the 'break angle' over the bridge, so a string-through-body style is probably best.
I've attached a picture of my Godin, which has a recessed bridge. It's a very comfortable guitar to play, for me.
Cheers
John
Author:  LanceK [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
JohnAbercrombie wrote:
Elias-
Welcome to the OLF!
I'm not much of a builder of electrics- only one, many years ago. You will get some more expert opinions soon.

About recessing the bridge into the top. This can be done, and looks great as well, IMO. You do have to worry about the 'break angle' over the bridge, so a string-through-body style is probably best.
I've attached a picture of my Godin, which has a recessed bridge. It's a very comfortable guitar to play, for me.
Cheers
John


John that is sweet! [:Y:]
Author:  avengers63 [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
I'd love to help out, but the pictures aren't showing up. Without them, it's difficult to know exactly what your current issues are.
Author:  turmite [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
I am almost finished with my first electric build, and am not sure if I follow the question asked here or not, so I will re state it and hope I have it correct.

Elias am I correct to understand that you have raised the tune-o-matic bridge by .5 of a centimeter? If so, then I have a question for the luithers here that may help you. Though it might make the guitar harder to play if the bridge was too high, would it affect the intonation? It sounds to me like he is saying the intonation is off.

Mike
Author:  Elias Kfoury [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
I told you my english is bad! LOL

So, That was 2 issues: 1 is the scale lenght - I drilled the tune-o-matic holes too awy from the nut, and some strings do not tune right at 12th fret
2: yes, I have to recess the bridge like john told - Nice job, John! very nice solution... I'll figure out if I have the skill to do that! :)
Author:  avengers63 [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
Elias Kfoury wrote:
So, That was 2 issues: 1 is the scale lenght - I drilled the tune-o-matic holes too awy from the nut, and some strings do not tune right at 12th fret


If you drilled the post holes for the bridge incorrectly, then there's really only one thing you can do: plug the holes and re-drill. If you can't find a dowel rod that's the same as the holes, get one that's bigger but as close to the size as possible. You'll then have to drill the holes bigger to match the dowel.

After that, it's really not too difficult to get the bridge placed correctly.
1) Make sure your center line is dead-on with the neck. This might not be the physical center line of the body, so don't get fooled by that. Draw it in with a pencil.
2) Find the exact scale length as measured from the nut. Mark it at a right angle from the center line.
3) Adjust the intonation line to have a 3-degree angle, with the bass strings further from the nut. When I do mine, I put the high E-string point a mm or two in front of the exact line. This gives me an ounce of leeway in case I drill a hair off of where I need to be.

Take pics and keep us updated on your progress. The drawback with re-drilling the holes is that the top woll have to be painted to hide the mistake. That's a LOT better than not being able to get it in tune.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
Lance Kragenbrink wrote:
John that is sweet! [:Y:]


Elias Kfoury wrote:
Nice job, John! very nice solution... I'll figure out if I have the skill to do that! :)


Whoa, folks- I like a compliment once in a while, [:Y:] but in this case all the praise should be directed to Robert Godin, who designed the guitar, and to the craftsmen at his company who built it. [clap] [clap] (It was a prototype.)
My only work was to crack open my wallet and buy it in 2002. ;)
It is a nice guitar-looks good, sounds good, and the controls are simple, which I also like.

Cheers
John
Author:  Elias Kfoury [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
John, I really thought that was your project, but, it's ok, It's a very good idea for my project anyway.

So, guys, I decided to start it again, Ill make something like a patch, to cover the 2 pickup cavities and the bridge holes. Than, I'll try to find the right place for all.

I have more questions (tell me if this is annoying)

> the best way to do this is using the router to make this big hole?
> What glue should I use to fix a new piece of wood to cover it?
> and for the body structure, is the same glue?
> is there a pattern, a blueprint, or something to draw right the pickups position and the bridge angle? Can i find it somewhere for download?

Thank you a lot!

Here's that pictures I forgot before:

Image

Image

Image

Image
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
Elias-
You can find some templates at http://www.mimf.com/library/catalog_plans.htm#templates

The pickup positions aren't that critical if you are using a TuneOmatic-type bridge. If it's a Tele bridge the pickup has to go in the opening in the bridge.
The bridge position is important to 'get right', and that position depends on the scale length and the fingerboard location. Since the fingerboard is glued already, make your measurements from the fingerboard. (Don't depend on a template).

Do you know the scale length you are using? (S.L.= 2xDistance from 12th fret to fingerboard nut end)
Put the adjustable saddles mid-way in the range of adjustment.
The saddles have to be positioned farther from the nut than the scale length ('compensation'). For the high 'E' string, about 2mm greater; for the low 'E' about 6 mm are the values I've used.
Once you know where the saddles have to be, you can mark the position for the bridge stud holes.
Drawing this all out on paper or poster board (cardboard) will help. You can also draw a side view to get your neck angle, pickup height and string break issues worked out.
Some useful links:
http://www.mimf.com/library/scale_length2.htm
http://www.mimf.com/library/saddle_compensation.htm
http://www.mimf.com/library/string_compensation2.htm

As far as your guitar body- you are saying that the glue seam in the middle of the body has failed? This may be due to wood shrinkage due to dryness? I don't think you will be able to 'force' that back together to re-glue- no matter what kind of glue you use. I would probably use the router or a good saw to cut a slot down the middle of the body and insert a wood spline with fresh glue. Any good woodworking glue will be OK- it might be a good idea to test the glue on some scrap (glue and then destroy) to make sure the glue is fresh.
You obviously have access to some great woods - that's lovely stuff that the body is made of.
However, for the glue question, you might be better to post a close-up picture in a new message thread- and get some expert tips. A title like "Solid-body glue seam failed-How to fix?" will get the attention of people who have more experience than me.
Cheers
John
Author:  Elias Kfoury [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
John, thanks a lot, it will be very, very useful.
I did know about the scale lenght, but, I just figure it out after drilling the cavities with the router. I think I'll do the following:

1st, I'll make a big cavity on the entire pickups/ bridge area, and use a piece of wood to patch it.
2nd, I'll try to make the fix on the body.
3rd, If I still alive, I'll try to redo all the measuring and make the cavities and holes again.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
Elias Kfoury wrote:
I think I'll do the following:
1st, I'll make a big cavity on the entire pickups/ bridge area, and use a piece of wood to patch it.
2nd, I'll try to make the fix on the body.
3rd, If I still alive, I'll try to redo all the measuring and make the cavities and holes again.


Elias-
Sounds like a good plan.
Let us know how it works out.
The woods in your guitars are spectacular. What woods are they? (local names)

Cheers
John
Author:  Elias Kfoury [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
Elias Kfoury wrote:

Post subject: Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions Reply with quote


Elias-
Sounds like a good plan.
Let us know how it works out.
The woods in your guitars are spectacular. What woods are they? (local names)

Cheers
John


John, I don't know the intl name, but local names is Cedro Rosa, Cedro and the scale is Pau-Ferro.
The top is a very nice wood, and I'll use it now, because I think this repair is not going to be ugly. I was planning to paint and lose this wood look, but now I think I can do it. Let's see.. Actually I'm in a lot of jobs at my office and don't having the time to put my hands on it, but soon I will. I let you know... But don't expect so much, cause I'm totally inexperienced. :shock:
Author:  Elias Kfoury [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
I think I made a mistake with this wood I told. I'll figure out and post the right answer. When I was buying, I was between two luthiers and I think one was intented to sell to me the 'cedro rosa' body, but I don't know right what I've bought.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very newbie asking stupid questions
Don't worry about the names too much- I know you are busy.
I was just curious.
It is lovely-looking stuff- it would have been a shame to paint it..

Cheers
John
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