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| Hippie Sandwich http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=22559 |
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| Author: | Zach Ehley [ Fri May 29, 2009 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hippie Sandwich |
So I've started thinking about building a bass or two. I am a bass player after all, so I probably shouldn't build only acoustic guitars. My question is for those of you who do a hippie sandwich along the lines of Alembic or Ken Smith..., what typical thicknesses do you use for the various layers. I'm assuming a 1.5 thick body bass. Core thickness? Drop top and back. 0.25? 0.375? each. What about the accents. Do you use standard 1/40 veneer? I know I can do whatever thicknesses I want, but wanted to get some idea of what others typically use. Inspiration pics would be great too. |
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| Author: | Brett L Faust [ Sat May 30, 2009 2:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hippie Sandwich |
If you are going to do a drop top do not exceed .125" or you may have trouble bending the top. Tom Anderson ,who I believe coined the term drop top, uses the term to describe a bent top that is about .200" or so and is kerfed on the back side to make it possible to bend. If you meant to say lam top , AKA flat top, obviously you could go any thickness you like for tonal and/or artistic reasons. You did not say which wood is your preference or the sound you are after. That may change your recipe one way or another. Remember the thicker the top plate, the more that particular wood will influence the sound. As for accent lines ,some folks like Fodera still use veneer while others use Forbond or vulcanized fiber sheets,the very same stuff some pickup bobbins are made of.The range of thickness for the fiber is from about .010" to about.100". I hope that helps and good luck with your build. |
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| Author: | Sheldon Dingwall [ Sun May 31, 2009 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hippie Sandwich |
Interesting suggestion to use Forbond. I've wondered how that would work. Who is using this? My only suggestion to the OP is to draw it out. Leave the edge lams of the neck on the wide side or they will look odd as the neck narrows toward the nut. Google Jean Beaudin. Look for his bass called "the claw". It's the craziest lam scheme I've ever seen that still looks tastefull. |
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| Author: | Brett L Faust [ Sun May 31, 2009 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hippie Sandwich |
Hi Sheldon, A while back I was still at Warmoth. At the time we were making a bunch of Yamaha bodies with figured maple tops and a black accent line between the mahogany and maple. We made hundreds of them. The thickness of the fiber was .020" maybe. Sorry,it has been many years and I don't remember the exact dimensions. The fiber is also available in white in some sizes. Years ago you could get black and white fiber sheets from Gurian. I am not sure if he still carries the materials, but it is worth a try if you want more than a small quantity. I hope that helps and good luck. |
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| Author: | Ziegenfuss [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hippie Sandwich |
Zach, I would not necessarily hold yourself to a convention... I would use what is available based on what you want it to look like. I vary the thickness of my top and back plates depending on how I want my carved neck joint or carved body to look. Additionally factors, like weight, may play in on how thick you want certain slabs to be. Also, depending on whether you are carving before or after the lamination says something to layer thickness. (Anderson 'shapes' his body first, which is what he kerfs the backside of the maple drop top to bend on to the curved shape below it). In addition to vulcanized fibre and things of that nature, I use dyed black poplar veneer if I want a hard accent line between laminations. If I want a soft line, I use walnut veneer. It I am working with two darker slabs, like redwood and walnut for example, I will use maple veneer to create a soft pinstripe... It is a bit based on preference depending on your final vision. Stephen |
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| Author: | Zach Ehley [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hippie Sandwich |
I think my top and back thickness will end us as thick as I can make it. I have a really nice bookmatched set of Bastogne Walnut that is about 60% normal color and 40% light. I can fit two sides on each bookmatched half and they are 9/16 thick. So I plan on resawing then again to make matching tops and backs. So I’ll end up with one top and back set that is dark and one light. It will probably be in the 0.2-0.25” range My initial thoughts are to follow that theme throughout the two basses, one light one dark. I was thinking on the light bass using Port Orford cedar core or maybe white or black limba. Is POC a crazy idea for a core material? Then follow with a mainly maple or limba neck with dark stringers. This may able be a lighter weight along with the light color. The second uses the dark top and back. Either black walnut or HOG core. Wenge neck with various yet to be determined stringers. Bloodwood, Purple heart, black limba??? Alembic touts ebony stringers for sustain. Any comments? Each body would be a core of around ¾ and on either side: veneer, accent piece about .125ish, veneer then top/back of about 0.2ish. Second question. Do most basses have a neck angle? Or is it flat? I don’t have hardware picked so I haven’t laid anything out yet. I read a book 15 years ago on building electrics and it mentioned an angle, but that may have been primarily on Les Paul type guitars. |
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| Author: | Sheldon Dingwall [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hippie Sandwich |
Thanks Brett. Zach Ehley wrote: The second uses the dark top and back. Either black walnut or HOG core. Wenge neck with various yet to be determined stringers. Bloodwood, Purple heart, black limba??? Alembic touts ebony stringers for sustain. Any comments? Second question. Do most basses have a neck angle? Or is it flat? I don’t have hardware picked so I haven’t laid anything out yet. I read a book 15 years ago on building electrics and it mentioned an angle, but that may have been primarily on Les Paul type guitars. I'd say you'd get more sustain out of carbon fiber or steel reinforcements than ebony. Unless you have really low hardware, you'll likely need some neck angle. I'm sure there's an easier way, but I like to draw out a centerline/side view with frets and relief. That usually gets me really close. |
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| Author: | Ziegenfuss [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hippie Sandwich |
I usually build without relief - flattops....but I keep my neck pronounced out of my body upwards of 3/8" to the fretboard surface - so there is enough room to play... But like Sheldon said (who I am SO HAPPY is here with us - Have you seen his work!!!) it depends on hardware and some other things... I prefer steel reinforcements - partially because I build primarily singlecuts, and a weird torsion force is generated by the offset neck-body anchoring locations on the bass and treble sides, and also because I feel as though the whole fretboards carries a good punch...I like that style of play though - quick and defined... What you are describing sounds good...Have fun with POC - your shop will smell wonderfully like spicy beef jerky... Stephen |
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| Author: | Zach Ehley [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hippie Sandwich |
Im missing something. SO HAPPY. Cant find it/him anywhere. |
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| Author: | Ziegenfuss [ Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hippie Sandwich |
Dingwall Basses? modernized application of traditional bass styles? Fanned Fret systems on most of his work? He is a brilliant builder. A high class name to younger builders like myself. Stephen |
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| Author: | Zach Ehley [ Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hippie Sandwich |
Ah yes. Voodoo basses. I remember seeing those when they first came out 15 years ago or so. I think thats the first fanned fret system I ever saw. Ive always been more of a Ken Smith and Warwick fan. |
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