Official Luthiers Forum!

Have any of you ever tried screwing your pickups firmly to the wood of the guitar instead of on an adjustment mechanism like Ed Roman (edroman.com) describes on his web site? Makes sense to me and would be less expense, too.

"Full contact with the neck has simply got to sound better. The pickup will add mass and increase resonance. The laws of physics are absolute."

Can't really argue with that, can you?

Seriously though, other than the laws of physics being absolute, I personally can't think of a reason why this would be better/make a difference. A magnetic pickup is picking up string vibration, not neck/body vibration. Maybe Ed's on to something that I'm missing though.

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

I figure that even if tonal differences aren't detectable between the two methods of mounting, one may as well save the money and mount directly to the wood. Less labor, too.

It's just a matter of adjustment. You might have to use shims to put your pickups up (or drill out to get them down) until you're sure they're at the right height. If you already know exactly which height works, then you can just screw them at that height every time (JET guitars does this, I believe, but he's probably made 400 of the same guitar!)

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Tele neck pickups are traditionally screwed to the body. Is this what you're talking about?

Other than that, kindly disregard most of what Ed Roman has to say.

I hear what you say about Mr. Roman. Although I respect him for his knowledge and experience I think that sometimes he is a little over the top in some of his criticisms. I read his ranting about PRS stop-tail bridges being impossible to adjust for intonation. I got my cheapy PRS out, a $500 SE Tremonti, and noticed intonation was out a little. I tweeked the bridge a little and it was nearly a perfect zeroing on my tuner with every string. Any difference in needle alignment was minuscule, not noticeable unless you have the ears of a dog.

The way a pickup is mounted certainly effects it's sound and response. I've played with mounting styles a fair amount, and the results can be much more dramatic than many would assume. Remember that the pickup senses only the movement of the field relative to the coils. Mount a pickup hard to the body vs on some shock absorbers, and two important things change - how the pickup vibrates relative to the strings, and how it vibrates internally. Remember that whether vibrations occur in the strings relative to the pickup or in the pickup relative to the strings, the pickup still senses it. Change the way the pickup vibrates relative to the strings, and you change the tone.

Then within the pickup, even in modestly potted coils, there will be at least some internal vibrations - some pickups much more than others. Mount them hard to the body and there will be much more of this, and even miniscule vibrations in coils, plates, magnets, can certainly come through in the end.

So there is truth to the mounting style creating a tonal difference, without doubt. As is typical of Ed Moron however, he has discovered the best tone, and anyone who prefers otherwise is of course wrong or deaf. Not surprisingly I suppose, my experience has been just the opposite of his. I find hard mounted pickups too likely to squeal rather than allowing a nice mellow midrange sustain and swell as spring or tubing mounted pickups can.

It may seem intuitive that mounting directly to the wood would "let more of the wood's tone come through", or something like that, but I just haven't seen in working that way. Tele neck pickups, yes, I like it, probably because that's what I'm conditioned to appreciate from a Tele. Same with Fender basses, though there is still at least some shock mounting in all of these Fender examples. Humbuckers? Not for me. I really think they need to be suspended, mounted fairly well separated from the wood via springs and plastic. I just think it sounds better.

James, you're being too nice. There are some people you don't have to beat around the bush about. The guy is so full of crap from top to bottom you can usually smell it dripping down your monitor if you stay on his site too long. Luthiers talking seriously about Ed Romanisms would be like The History Channel devoting hours to Nostradamus, yetis, and UFOs.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Following your line of thinking then, Mr. Collins, it would mean longer life for the pickups being suspended in that they would be protected from absorbing the occasional whack a guitar takes.

I don't know about longer life. I suppose on a Strat style pickup that could be arguable, where the coils are directly against the poles, and pole corrosion combined with vibration can occasionally wear through the winding insulation and even rub through a wire. That's not terribly common though, and I don't really know if the change would amount to any measurable difference in the end.

The most prominent effect I notice when the pickup is mounted hard to the body, is that at moderate to high volumes it can be hard to get a nice warm sustain feedback or swell when you lean in to the amp. Hard mounted pickups are much more likely to be overtaken by the high pitched squeal before you can bring any useful tones in to the loop. Every pickup, body style, and individual preference will be different though. You may not find so much difference with a soft wood body and epoxy vacuum potted pickups, but on your average Fender or Gibson I'd say there are definitely some tonal differences attributable to the change.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

This crossed my mind this afternoon, but I didn't give it too much thought. It really makes sense though now that I think about it more and see it put so well.

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

There are many guitars out there with the pickup screwed into the wood with a spring between the wood and pickup mount to adjust height. Eddie van halen does this. Or are you just talking into the wood with no adjustment at all. If so i would like to know the formula needed to figure out the right depth you need to mount it before you rout the cavity. This would be pretty hard to get right especially since all pickups have different properties when mounted. Especially in the neck and bridge positions.

Pickups have different dimensions and "sweet spots " so a "formula" is really more like a tried and true recipe. Unfortunately,the recipes all call for" season to taste",not to mention clearance for portruding screws and wires if the pickups have short feet.
An alternative is to use solid shims with no springs after determining the "sweet spot" of your chosen pickup. A buddy of mine used pennies to shim his Music Man bass pickup to the right spot and then tightened it down . It made cents for him......

Sorry, I could not resist.