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I think it looks great and I don’t know if I could distress it. If it looked really bad, that would be different.

I wouldn’t go as far as distressing it just because of the scratches you described.

you guys are probably right, just another example of the tortuous nature of this build. I've put a ton of work into this thing and made a ton of mistakes, the first of which being taking on such an ambitious style electric. I've taken so many steps forward just to have to go back because I was trying to rush or skip ahead, you'd think it would start to sink in. I feel like when this is all done I should write a post to new builders as a cautionary tale. I appreciate the feedback guys, I'll probably just shoot it a couple more times and do a better job sanding it, what's another week when you've worked on something for a freakin' year.

While I'm waiting for the new lac to dry I can start smashing my head into the table trying to do the inlay for the headstock...

John, don't beat yourself up so much. The finish looks pretty good. I certainly would not distress it. That said, I'm not a fan of distressed finishes anyway.

Making mistakes and learning how to correct them are a big part of the building process. We've all make our share. If it were me, and you seem to be worried about the small scratches, I would simply try rebuffing, starting with a slightly coarser grade of compound. You are unlikely to sand through using only compound, even if your finishes are getting thin. I have found that when using the R/O buffers, you have to work a little harder to get the fine scratches out. Worse case scenereo is you have to shoot a couple more coats.

The other thing to remember is that you, the builder, see a much greater number of imperfections. In many cases, only another builder will spot a flaw unless you point it out.

Thanks Everett, I'm really sort of just expressing my sense of humor here though. I'll try your advice with the coarser compound and see if that works. I am a very self-critical person but I don't get depressed by it, I feel like it's what best drives my forward progression. I don't think I would be this far into it if I didn't have that personality trait. Of course that's my rationalization, my wife just tells me I'm obsessed, lol...

Yep, same technique I use. I know if I used a buffer I would instantly burn through the lacquer - I have experience ruining a car finish.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

John, you're done with the finish. It doesn't need anything, no more buffing, no more top coats, it's done. As far as writing a post for new builders, don't bother. They'll ignore it, just like you did. Seems like I remember you being warned that this was a little ambitious as a first effort, but it looks great! One thing I've found is that you have to be able to call something good enough and move on. There have been many instances when I thought, "one more little tweak and I'll have it perfect" and that little tweak makes it worse. Then it HAS to be fixed, when if I'd left it alone it would be fine.
By the way, the color came out really great!

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

It's finished.
Start another one!

Yes. +1

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I think it looks great. Tiny little imperfections will not be noticed. Think of it as "the hand of the craftsman". If it were me... I would not put those tuners on this build. The open back tuners lend themselves more to a vintage acoustic...

The next one will be better... and the one after that will be better still...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

And that's the trick to wet sanding through the grits if you ask me....to find a way to clean the paper of build-up and wipe surface of the guitar clean as fast as possible so you can get back to sanding the surface.

I'm going to try an idea but I have to buy some large kitchen sponges first.

The idea is to have a tray with three or four sponges in a row filled with soapy water. I use small (2" x 1-1/2") hard and soft foam pads for wet sanding. After a few strokes I think quickly wiping the sanding block a few times on each sponge along the row will clean and then re-wet the paper. It'll work great as long the whole tray stays uncontaminated for an entire session. We'll see. But since I hold the guitar in awkward positions, have to wipe the surface of the guitar, clean the paper, and then re-wet the surface....this might work better since it eliminates some single hand transfers.

This comes up because I too get the odd deep scratch. I assume it's from build-up because I level with 800 grit and the scratches are larger than 800 grit. I'm on a quest to find the quickest way to clean and re-wet the paper.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Hey Tony, we talked a bit about finishing on my first which I'm still working on with a wipe on poly, but I am growing frustrated as many others have with how hard it is to get an even finish without sanding through, and also getting it to cure over rosewood.

You mentioned that you now use a brush on laquer that is pretty thick. Is there any reason that you don't wipe it on to keep the coats thinner? Or would it essentially be the same process as the poly?

If you don't mind, could you detail your process? I admire your results and I don't have the ventilation to spray and I won't for about a year at least.

Thanks,
Joey

just thought I'd update on this, I've decided to let the finish lie and just move forward to finish this lady. Here's an update on the head stock veneer, I still have to inlay the cross and I'm going to use abalone fret markers for the rosary beads. Learned another lesson while gluing this up, which is not to use black CA glue near end grain of light grain wood. I got some bleeding in her arms which I can live with, it kind of gives it an aged look(at least I'm telling myself that!)

without further ado



Pretty stoked with how it turned out, it's my first time doing intarsia or inlay of any kind besides straightline details in cabinet doors. I actually had to cut a few of the pieces twice because the fit just wasn't right. After a couple of failed attempts to detail the surface of the copper, the first being a try at putting the canals of Mars on the face, and the second trying to put some moon craters on there, I ended up just going at it with a burr on my dremel. It's really got a nice look to it finally and I think it will really pop under lacquer. I used my jewelers saw to cut the truss rod access out of the same piece so it'll disappear when it all goes together. This is also the reason that I assembled the image while it wasn't on the guitar, so I could cut this part out and have it match.

I just have to apply it, and finish up shaping my nut and the construction part will be done. I'm hoping to have it wrapped up in the next two weeks but I'm conservatively aiming for a month. I'll likely not post any more pics until it's all complete and possibly start a new post. Thanks to everyone for their feedback and support, I think I'll be building these things for quite awhile but I can quit anytime I want to ; )

dang photobucket, didn't apply the rotation. Let's see if this works

funny thing about thinking you're about to finish something. That's when a little carelessness gets in your way. I was doing some work on my headstock inlay the other day and used a paper towel to wipe off some squeeze out CA. When I set the towel down it flipped back and stuck to the body of my guitar. No big deal I thought, I can just sand and buff that spot, heck while I'm at it I'll just drop fill those flaws that have been bugging me. And then this happened...



well, the more I thought about it the harder it seemed to try and touch up this blank spot and match it to my burst. So the decision was made to do this




Stripped the color, reshot with lacquer and I'm giving it a little time to rest before I redo the burst. It honestly isn't bothering me and I look at the whole situation as a blessing in disguise. I honestly was having a hard time with the flaws and my wife told me after it happened that she could tell I wasn't happy with the way the top was. She said everytime I showed it to someone I pointed out the flaws first, subconsciously, and told people not to look at them, lol. This just forced my hand, and I'll just do it again.

Also I got the headstock done, pretty happy with it. West African ebony, curly maple, impregnated maple, walnut, spalted maple and copper, with some abalone side markers as rosary beads.



I've got my nut fit, just have to trim the truss rod cover and drill for a couple screws on each side and set my tuning machines. Looking to respray the burst this weekend, and am going to be more careful this time!

Definitely Joey. When I get home later today.
The brushed finish looks thick when it goes on, but I painted a test piece last time I did a guitar and 5 coats on the test piece ended up being pretty thin. I have the numbers somewhere and I will look them up as well tonight. But I think it was about 5 thousandths thick. The lacquer gets much, MUCH thinner as it gasses off, so it might look thick going on, but it does not end up thick.
Thanks for the compliments on my finishes. It is more about the sanding than the painting!

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I just want to say that relic'ing sucks and no one should ever do it. I think it's a step above lying.

I thought your finished looked spectacular before, but it's nice to hear that you're excited to improve on it. My best finish other than burnished rosewood is Tru-oil with the last coat unsanded, which needless to say is not very impressive. This is an area I could improve upon.

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http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

Joey,
Here is a thread I made on applying brush on nitro, not water based, lacquer:
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=36174
This is in the original thread, but so you dont have to look, for the first three coats, each coat added .001" of thickness to the finish, but the more coats I added to my test piece the less each coat added. Perhaps I was moving more quickly, or perhaps something else is going on, but the point is, after 10 coats, I did not have .01" of nitro, it was more like .008". If that seems like a lot, keep in mind it takes a lot more sanding to level a brushed finish versus sprayed due to the brush. The coats co on much less smoothly.
Anyway, I would say if your finish prep is exceptional, you could get away with 6 coats of lacquer. If it is less than exceptional, 8-10 would be better as you will be sading off a lot, and also filling any dips in your less-than-exceptional- wood prep. I do 1-2 coats per day. You can do more very easily as the surface is dry enough after an hour to brush on another coat, but since they are thicker than sprayed coats, it seems to take longer to gas off.
I had a guitar painted for a month, laid it on a rough-ish surface, and it picked up the texture of the surface. To help the gasses escape, I have begun to scuff the surface of the finish with 400 grit paper each day. Sometimes more than once a day and I also leave a fan blowing on it. The gasses sitting on the surface keep it from drying. Blowing the fumes away helps the drying process. Scuffing helps too by opening the surface up so more of the solvents can escape. I scuff with a hard flat block that I also use for wet sanding later on. It might not scuff everything, but it scuff a lot of the finish.
If you have any specific questions, please ask. I am happy to share my limited knowledge with everyone.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

and we're back.



I think I might be happier with the color now than with the first burst, more importantly I was much more diligent about keeping things clean so I didn't get any crud in my finish. I did have a little problem with the atomization on my airbrush though, and didn't really notice until I put my first coat of clear down. I'm okay with it though, it makes it look a little old.


Fingers crossed that I can NOT sand through anywhere this time, and I'm going to be much better with my sanding. I feel like the finish has been almost as difficult as building was, which is surprising. I've sprayed tons of cabinets, doors, furniture what have you. Never cut and polished before though, it really magnifies your carelessness.



now I wait...

Hey Tony! Nice shine you've got going on there...wow! How do you hold the instrument while buffing with the RO polisher? I will be spraying with the neck on, so need to have a solid way to position and hold the whole guitar while the buffer is dancing around on it.

I use an easy approach to the buffing question. I hate buffing and don't do it if I can help it. The guitars I work on are only going into lots of hard use. I don't distress them, but I don't need to make them look brand new either. If they look like they were a beautiful flawless gloss a couple hundred gigs ago, that is fine.

After sealing and sanding to 220/300 (and any color) I build up clear nitro. After letting it calm down for a few weeks (summer) or few months (winter) I wet sand it smooth with 300/400/600. Then I spray a clear coat normally thinned. Immediately I pour the unused nitro out of the gun, add more thinner and spray quickly with it. It is a learned skill, but it is possible to spray an even gloss onto the body without runs. If you screw up it is easy to fix after it dries. But if you do it right, the guitar looks real nice. Not work of art nice, but working guitar nice.
Obviously I only work on my own guitars and close friends who use their guitars at parties and in bars.

Hey Beth, sorry for the delay in my reply. Hurricane Sandy and such. Anyway, why are you spraying with the neck on? Is it a Spanish foot or something? Well, no matter. I do not have a troji, so I have to improvise. My work bench is about as deep as a dread is long. So I put a towel on the bench and wrap it around the edge of the box that is against the wall. I then lean into the box with my body to hold it in place. For the sides, I sit and use my knee clamp to hold the box from moving side to side, and use a conveniently placed 5 gallon bucket to hold the box from beneath, padded with towels of course. This is not an ideal solution, but it works for my limited production. However, a Black and Decker Workmate can be made into a Troji very quickly and easily and might be the best solution. A foot on the table supports will keep it from moving, but you shouldn't be putting much pressure on the buffer anyway. I know a guy who is using this exact set up. Works for lots of things where you need to hold the box. And, you can use it with the neck on!
No need to send me money as a 'thank you'. Just your continued support will do.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

My current build is being done to Robbie O'Brien's excellent steel string course. I have never finished with the neck on before, but that's how he's doing it in this build and I decided at the beginning to follow along faithfully, so I'd get some new experiences. I probably won't do it this way in the future. I made the pipe clamp thingy on my workbench, and will use that. I have a workmate, but my mate frequently uses it for other projects.
I bought a Ryobi random orbital buffer yesterday and am looking forward to being so far along in this build that I get to use it

Beth,

I recently did this and just set the body on a padded platform. It wasn’t clamped at all for the top and back. For the sides I can’t remember, but I don’t think I put it in my troji. I have done touchup polishing after the neck is on so that will work too.

For areas you can’t use the buffer, I'm polishing with fast strokes with the cloth so you generate a bit of heat works well. I think Tony may have described it as "rubbing like a mad man." My neck shaft I did shoeshine style.

John

Thanks John!